From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 21 20:47:28 2007 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E4916A41F; Mon, 21 May 2007 20:47:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5820813C457; Mon, 21 May 2007 20:47:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kris@obsecurity.org) Received: from obsecurity.dyndns.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D4A1A3C19; Mon, 21 May 2007 13:48:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obsecurity.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1032751369; Mon, 21 May 2007 16:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:47:26 -0400 From: Kris Kennaway To: Gore Jarold Message-ID: <20070521204726.GB81333@xor.obsecurity.org> References: <20070521193405.GA80086@xor.obsecurity.org> <38676.4493.qm@web63004.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <38676.4493.qm@web63004.mail.re1.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i Cc: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org, Brooks Davis , Kris Kennaway Subject: Re: How to report bugs (Re: VERY frustrated with FreeBSD/UFS stability - please help or comment...) X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 20:47:28 -0000 --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, May 21, 2007 at 01:37:25PM -0700, Gore Jarold wrote: > > The larger issue here is that apparently you have > > been suffering in > > silence for many years with your various > > frustrations and they have > > finally exploded into this email. This is really a > > poor way to > > approach the goal of getting your problems solved: > > it is fundamentally > > a failure of your expectations to think that without > > adequately > > reporting your bugs that they will somehow get > > fixed. >=20 >=20 > I need to clarify and respond to this ... my point was > that every release since 5.0 has had some new and > interesting instability in this regard. Every time a > new release comes out, it seems to be "fixed", only to > reveal some other new and interesting instability. >=20 > So, no, I have not silently suffered with _any one_ > particular problem - they never seem to last more than > one release or two. It is only now, however, that I > have come to realize that I am in the same spot > (overall) today as I was in early 2004. The details > are slightly different, but the end result is that my > rsyncs and cps and rms are too much for FreeBSD, and > have been for 3 years now. >=20 > So what I am saying is, individual causes of > instability (seem to) come and go, but I am not any > better of today than I was with 5.0. I have just > realized this, and that is why I make my frustration > known today. OK, but nevertheless the point stands. When you encounter a critical issue in FreeBSD, the sensible way to go about addressing it is to file a suitably complete PR, instead of just gritting your teeth, raising your blood pressure, and hoping that someone else will accidentally fix it in the next release. Of course, filing a PR is not a guarantee that it will be fixed (e.g. the "snapshot fills a filesystem" problems, which result from deeper architectural issues and in practise may require contracting a developer to get fixed), but at least you will have done your part. > > Without these two things there is really very little > > that a developer > > can do to try and guess what might possibly be > > happening on your > > system. However, it appears that we might now be > > making some > > progress: > >=20 > > > ssh user@host rm -rf backup.2 > > > ssh user@host mv backup.1 backup.2 > > > ssh user@host cp -al backup.0 backup.1 > > > rsync /files user@host:/backup.0 > > >=20 > > > The /files in question range from .2 to 2.2 > > million > > > files, all told. This means that when this script > > > runs, it first either deletes OR unlinks up to 2 > > > million items. Then it does a (presumably) zero > > cost > > > move operation. Then it does a hard-link-creating > > cp > > > of the same (up to 2 million) items. > >=20 > > Please provide additional details of how the > > filesystems in question > > are configured, your kernel configuration, hardware > > configuration, and > > the debugging data referred to in 2) above. >=20 >=20 > I will collect all of this and submit it the next time > the system crashes... Thanks. Kris --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFGUgVdWry0BWjoQKURAr9JAKCr6i/tp9SPtbOEsSFRbrX+AnuU0wCgjdMp or9FdqbWJsKlFv+2uI7VePs= =mZMg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Dxnq1zWXvFF0Q93v--