From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Jun 6 14:47:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A0F16A4CE; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:47:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pooker.samsco.org (pooker.samsco.org [168.103.85.57]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9232843D1F; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 14:47:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Received: from [192.168.0.12] (g4.samsco.home [192.168.0.12]) (authenticated bits=0) by pooker.samsco.org (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i56LtD6b044025; Sun, 6 Jun 2004 15:55:13 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from scottl@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <40C390C4.1000609@freebsd.org> Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 15:46:44 -0600 From: Scott Long User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7) Gecko/20040514 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Marcel Moolenaar References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> In-Reply-To: <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=3.8 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on pooker.samsco.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2004 21:47:47 -0000 Marcel Moolenaar wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 02:31:56PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > >>As with Alpha, >>the fate of a platform rests on the people who are willing to work on >>it, not on whether it is in a particular list. > > > Agreed, but it's the projects responsibility to take the tierness and > the intend to support multiple platforms serious and not to chicken out > at the first signs of complications or hurdles. We labeled sparc64 as > a tier 1 platform and we better deal with the consequences. > > As for alpha, we don't even seem to be able to degrade it to tier 2 > without losing face. kris@ has already stopped package builds for it > for his own sake. > > Wake up, people. This is quickly becoming a joke... > It's not that there is face to loose on alpha, it's that every time I announce that alpha is going to be killed unless issues X, Y, and Z are fixed, someone comes along and fixes X, part of Y, and promises to fix Z. There is nothing wrong with this, and I definitely appreciate it when people step up to fix things. However, it does prolong the process and doesn't leave us with 100% of what we need. At this point, I'm going to advocate that Alpha be dropped from Tier-1 status for 5.3 and 5-STABLE and no longer be a blocking item for releases. I made it very clear last winter that alpha needed a full time maintainer in order to stay viable, and that really never happened. As I said back then, demotion is not a terminal condition, and I would be thrilled if someone comes forward in the future and brings the platform back up to date. If anyone wants to claim it now and keep it alive for 5.3, they need to both finish KSE, make KSE work reliably, and be very responsive to Kris Kenneway about ports issues. This needs to happen in no more than 4 weeks. After that, I will turn away even the best of intentions. Anyways, moving on, KSE needs attention. Please figure out what can be done for sparc64 and amd64 and do it. Scott