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[75.130.56.30]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n187-v6sm8521599ywn.76.2018.08.24.16.39.58 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 24 Aug 2018 16:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: drm / drm2 removal in 12 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20180824215302.ivfna55jtrtc5trg@freebsd480.station> From: Kris Moore Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=kris@ixsystems.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBE5nfNMBCADxo/scoVqCZbXXeJTFET/xl/TWfjP5HtlP65F2LLzmjCcGz8/6B7lyCYDp yMawhEael7QPRBt/PCbc6fKspq3Rei+3IniPKkxfxfpUtsr1AIA6iMntzRWTa0DrW2C1NpDH 8MU5VXu91dNKE86umFZYqO54GUGmCEM06q0ZMCPBooUgQchNs8YztiEJzg6GokYQm4/3EHRJ ddQcyB7jupZYSNG49Hqm84QDeGBuXKJDcn7a6dn5ZvStFQO523Clv+83qYLdnaMPsQVAyj+w ifcC28jyGegvxK2gz5j2zcqmlK//3UEKiTwqoxsQM0McbE4PsVotpBDR5rSiydvRlimRABEB AAHNKUtyaXMgTW9vcmUgKG5vIHBhc3N3b3JkKSA8a3Jpc0BwY2JzZC5vcmc+wsB4BBMBAgAi AhsjBgsJCAcDAgYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAUCVHM5MAAKCRB/3CIMMFd81zyiB/9rKgfK 9i4pwSB6qYPkrNOavRqu3cLDL4H86k9PUBWeGWDtHYVqu6yhSxz3rUSyipNltmxl2IardlQl AJj2YCe+lrdRMejW4DpPhc8Yx1/OBcYlZ31SE98ns9tqrQVPNg7/rGazO/4osW8bwYvI61w2 W82fS7UzDb9++Qg2prsXo1YA5pKxCM52NX7UwkhREvBjDBlW2R3CubAyVcKqDXVb6ILCisFA mx0s78NucK6nbuHCfot31IIpD5wdnyY2qkLsLeFPnMpkrC8XpAh5mRkrlBw862vGjT2/GVR6 LwCGnHZNLawPcU53H1U3Nq50dDayhwk0ZCYuqSVC/rOQVaRezsBNBE5nfNMBCADD6cD19M4r W5hUuGnmrKhNH0d5j0xSUjQS0jM2Y7c52jra+qEYUstPr1oJX5IPG5fvi0ItIpQ1kU9O9GbA oLlL0rP16HmrWV+lzDK71L3m3jZg35pvXrhBjdygR5jozd8FpMH5FNCRtjjn7iiQQWv2u82A udJunI8xdB+HPtg0l/HdhWX5cf2Av/96G1zbA+r5bW6+k7pUM/XCMVYozRrScW7paK6PSkg5 XL3OdtA/PBUg0RoEdomeJlKU87Phs0qIJw6pG/Ng8ThoLLhtqFGCsPnj+UqBklzGQaC3kPeg dEHsf/xeiFdWo/AyKc9R6R4a1Kr0N8lQxCJBzvVz9BDrABEBAAHCwF8EGAECAAkCGwwFAlRz OTAACgkQf9wiDDBXfNf0SQf/bsIeG9s+lIC1muXPTjfZH5k1U1V0pFI2i4jjBOL+OfgqTpNx XeIs2NclW1A/xBRt9YuoTQJRZMOXZBxeMCEm1n5MLRj+zxCJmUWnQvEBE6gC/cadB7efqc70 /UVjmgyxKZTJzmUuJ2ZKbe/LekfZuzSQ83lX1pVT/gfCe2zJBfZwoNoNQ8lDBwT/fdleChLe qVlArrhxYtTdQCAfG4M3Uxs6OWQK3OQJO15aNjybQl514xLnQrLmLMD95zIuckGbGlSEJ+HO 0BZYPdcT3C1sIRnhxifbEd4wose9ydOsxxdVZr3mYarTjPlAVxAsX4nP2+K75ymFi/YH+ARE dxQWXA== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 19:39:56 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2018 23:40:00 -0000 On 8/24/18 7:07 PM, blubee blubeeme wrote: > On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 6:26 AM Warner Losh wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 4:20 PM Matthew Macy wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Aug 24, 2018 at 14:53 Ali wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 06:54:54PM -0700, Matthew Macy wrote: >>>>> Just in case anyone misses the change to UPDATING: >>>>> >>>>> 20180821: >>>>> drm and drm2 have been removed. Users on powerpc, 32-bit >>>> hardware, >>>>> or with GPUs predating Radeon and i915 will need to install >> the >>>>> graphics/drm-legacy-kmod. All other users should be able to >> use >>>>> one of the LinuxKPI-based ports: graphics/drm-stable-kmod, >>>>> graphics/drm-next-kmod, graphics/drm-devel-kmod. >>>>> Note that this applies only to 12. >>>> I see that The removal of drm and drm2 has been reverted on svn. Could >>>> you please kindly share the reasons behind the re-inclusion? >>>> >>> >>> I can’t really give the blow by blow of internal project drama, but the >>> gist of it is that “best practices” (which are not yet actually >> documented >>> anywhere that I’ve seen) were not followed with regards to the >> deprecation >>> process. Warner and others believe that we can address the objectives of >>> the drm removal (improving the user experience and communicating that >>> drm/drm2 are _completely_ unsupported apart from continuing to compile) >>> through less disruptive means. >>> >> Just so. >> >> Our only continued frustration is that we were never given any guidance by >>> RE or core on said “best practices” when the discussion was taking place >> in >>> May and then those groups behaved as if this were a surprise when the >>> removal happened. I’m cautiously optimistic that this well expedite >>> improving communications on those matters. >>> >> All the problems that are exposed by this aren't technical. This one is >> social, but no less important. >> >> Warner >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > I've been watching this debacle for quite some time now and I'd just like > to ask why the rush? > > The graphics team is working very hard to destroy the stability of FreeBSD > just so that they can force their uncooked work down users throats. > > The Linuxkpi is unstable at best, alpha level software that's constantly in > need of someone to go and fix something on FreeBSD because Linux devs > decided to make some changes or implement a new feature. > > This project: https://wiki.freebsd.org/Use%20linuxkpi%20in%20DRM > Goals > > - Move DRM headers to a similar location as Linux > - > > Use kmalloc() instead of malloc(9) > - Use kref > - > > Use idr and get rid of drm_gem_names.c > - Use PCI API > - Use Linux locking primitives > > is garbage, if you want to use develop Linux code and use Linux then go do > that on Linux. > > Are these guys insane and please avoid the nonsense about you're doing this > in your spare time. > > If you cannot devote the resources to do something right then don't do it > at all. > > Keep that stuff in to yourself or anyone crazy enough to follow those steps > to get it up and running, you guys cannot expect to contaminate the entire > FreeBSD project for this mess. > > This is nonsense and I hope that more people who see it as such would say > so and stop having these guys forcing this crap; it's maintenance hell who > will maintain it if they decide to leave? > > Best, > Owen > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" I've been personally using the new DRM bits since almost day one. I haven't found it to be unstable in the slightest. Compared to not having it and being forced to run 5+ year old hardware, it's been a huge blessing for those of us who care about running FreeBSD as a modern desktop / laptop. FreeBSD being an open source project, you are welcome to contribute back your work anytime. But since I don't imagine we'll see that patch coming anytime soon, I'll stick with this new LinuxKPI-powered, Plasma-desktop running awesomeness. (Written from my brand new Lenovo P71 which worked flawlessly out of box) -- Kris Moore Vice President of Engineering iXsystems Enterprise Storage & Servers Driven By Open Source