From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Sun May 29 07:18:10 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A828D16A41C for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 07:18:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from johnjawed@gmail.com) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.204]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B9A143D1F for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 07:18:10 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from johnjawed@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so2022977wri for ; Sun, 29 May 2005 00:18:09 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=NVcwR/H0lvOHmAMH+EQc5hyqJiVgPBX+gAOkHozJyD5PGj14O4KWdR3VJpUmmLjxvGsCvL9FKxxID8y1UWFV42ab4ZT19+YL7x0YiyDdT16ESmi4A9qYPg637ySEkt3p3EZYMOgZEpZXbILlqJ7L7OwuBJueJZQMNxxXAQMq8yA= Received: by 10.54.91.3 with SMTP id o3mr4097684wrb; Sun, 29 May 2005 00:18:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.132.10 with HTTP; Sun, 29 May 2005 00:18:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 00:18:07 -0700 From: John Jawed To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 References: <20050528165128.DEB8B1F50B1@ws1-2.us4.outblaze.com> <20050528225538.GD19079@gothmog.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Subject: Re: Main site makeover X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: John Jawed List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 07:18:10 -0000 That design is very good. Like I said before, my design is still in it's=20 early stages, and I've taken time to make it completely in CSS...so it is= =20 easy to implement with current/dynamic content. I think it's a waste of time to try to keep propogating a small redesign=20 (you would have to propogate every table property, etc) through the entire= =20 site, and then again do a complete revamp of it. The FreeBSD site has been= =20 up for how long now? I think people have gotten used to it's current look.= =20 If introducing a new look is the idea, then introduce it, not it's watered= =20 down version...just to change it yet again. Consistency is one of the main= =20 goals all software related projects should undertake.=20 Changing it once with a small redesign, then changing it again with a whole= =20 new redesign, then possibly again, just makes for no consistent behavior.= =20 IMHO, only one change should be to make a move to an all CSS layout.=20 Dropping these table orientated styles will open many new doors for the=20 FreeBSD site, including, an easy to port mobile version of the documentatio= n=20 (imagine getting the help you need properly formatted and easy to read=20 through your PDA). Regards On 5/28/05, Chris Zumbrunn wrote: >=20 > On May 29, 2005, at 12:55 AM, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: >=20 > > On 2005-05-28 11:51, Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote: > >>>> What happened to this? > >>>> http://www.monkey.org/freebsd/archive/freebsd-advocacy/200412/ > >>>> msg00080.html > >>>> > >>>> I don't know if these were generated from real HTML/CSS or just > >>>> created in a graphics editor. > >>> > >>> Actually, I've seen a front page that Chris did (I think) that's got > >>> the nice menu across the top and a really well designed front page. > >> > >> I just wanted to point out; > >> > >> There's *nothing* new about that design. > >> It still follows the old principles. > > > > It's ok. Small incremental changes are easier to test and accept than > > a > > full "throw it all away and use mine" style of update. > > > > The site now uses CSS a lot more than before, AFAIK. I'm not a web > > design guru, but if someone came up with a style that looks like, say, > > Wikipedia it would be interesting. > > > > Any takers who want to try revamping the front page by using *only* CSS > > style changes? >=20 > Yes, that was exactly the idea. There is a version committed in > Perforce that took that approach and looks like this: >=20 > http://czv.com/zones/beastie/freebsd/freebsdweb1h.html > http://czv.com/zones/beastie/freebsd/freebsdweb2h.html >=20 > For now, the logo competition has put a wrench in going live with a > small redesign like this. >=20 > Specially for all the content pages besides the frontpage, it is > crucial to implement a redesign in a way that is compatible with the > current way these pages are built. A redesign that requires changes > beyond that will take forever to implement. What many don't seem to > understand is that the technical implementation of the design and the > design itself are two different things. They can't both happen at the > same time. >=20 > Changing the technical implementation will be a slow process that > requires a long term transition without changing the design at the same > time. The redesign itself is something that is implemented within the > existing technical framework and can be switched live at once. >=20 > I still argue that we need to first switch a small redesign live within > the current technical framework, then change the technical framework > (which will require updates to the markup of all the pages in the www > cvs tree for all the languages) and only after that we can undertake a > major redesign entirely based on CSS definitions. >=20 > Going a bit farther with just the frontpage is possible as long as it > is in line with the initially simple changes that can be made to the > content pages. For example Devon's div-based markup with the dynamic > menues that is currently in Perforce: >=20 > http://czv.com/zones/beastie/freebsd/freebsdweb1j.gif >=20 > Cheers, Chris >=20 > chris@czv.com +41 329 41 41 41 > Chris Zumbrunn Ventures - http://www.czv.com/ > Internet Application Technology - Reduced to the Maximum >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.or= g > " >=20 --=20 John Jawed Zend Certified Software Engineer MySQL AB Certified Developer http://www.johnjawed.com http://groups-beta.google.com/group/MySQLi