From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG  Wed Nov  3 16:19:16 2004
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A82B16A4CE
	for <current@freebsd.org>; Wed,  3 Nov 2004 16:19:16 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from CPE000103d44c07-CM000f9f7ae88c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com
	(CPE000103d44c07-CM000f9f7ae88c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.193.222.195])
	by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 068ED43D49
	for <current@freebsd.org>; Wed,  3 Nov 2004 16:19:16 +0000 (GMT)
	(envelope-from mikej@rogers.com)
Received: from cpe000103d44c07-cm000f9f7ae88c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com
	(localhost [127.0.0.1])with ESMTP id 2C8D5295423;
	Wed,  3 Nov 2004 11:19:05 -0500 (EST)
Received: from 207.219.213.163 (proxying for unknown)
        (SquirrelMail authenticated user mikej);
        by cpe000103d44c07-cm000f9f7ae88c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com with 
     HTTP;
        Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:19:05 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <43125.207.219.213.163.1099498745.squirrel@207.219.213.163>
In-Reply-To: <20041103111813.GB13047@nagual.pp.ru>
References: <20041103111157.GA12950@nagual.pp.ru>
    <16110.1099480534@critter.freebsd.dk>
    <20041103111813.GB13047@nagual.pp.ru>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 11:19:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Mike Jakubik" <mikej@rogers.com>
To: "Andrey Chernov" <ache@nagual.pp.ru>
User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
X-Mailer: SquirrelMail/1.4.3a
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Importance: Normal
X-wettoast-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more
	information
X-wettoast-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: mikej@rogers.com
cc: Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>
cc: current@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Recent TTYDEF_LFLAG default change
X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current
	<freebsd-current.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current>,
	<mailto:freebsd-current-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-current@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-current-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current>,
	<mailto:freebsd-current-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:19:16 -0000

Andrey Chernov said:

> On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 12:15:34PM +0100, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>> Because if you open a serial port and it defaults to echo, you may end
>> up in
>> an "echo-war" with the other end before you ever get a chance to call
>> ioctl and disable echoing.
>
> Well, use TTYDEF_LFLAG_NOECHO I suggest for that case and leave
> user-visible default untouched to not break userland programs.

I agree. My terminal under bash still gets messed up after running
portupgrade.