From owner-freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Thu Aug 29 21:26:31 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fcp@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B87AE04E9 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:26:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46KFzW0c1mz4Ctf for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:26:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 12E45E04E8; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:26:31 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: fcp@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12AB9E04E7 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:26:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x72b.google.com (mail-qk1-x72b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46KFzV0hpKz4Ctc for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:26:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x72b.google.com with SMTP id w18so4396873qki.0 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:26:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=psQkg5NFhz4GN6E0Jq/7T4mBDwPB1ph0P/vT6e2lXuQ=; b=JZd6loCg+YQdQql8wgOiMWtOt5vOp+II5onQh8aReWkG7MvshujPEnEh9AJ54oKpFk ByuiRvoyLjTSkE4FiGYIUIq4P34CkF/y9IV1qDX7DC/DnnSvI91/X+IcW6j55wR8iyRx rJXROucxRC0RKNODzMr1G73wp0F/xgHEtM7GS7XmwS/kvLvzcfxeqL5mEGBQDPqik+nt mlhNyUmBl1CtiA5e3Y6kHABkKBiCt3lGjenwHDMutQRi+nI3Cul9buFSDGEaOzckEQXN xCRXbc/AOd+OEDe8ZtaVUBd0FwkwoWgCsn7/aocVL6Ri8WwOWI9MTEemQfAzSdq5fue4 tleg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=psQkg5NFhz4GN6E0Jq/7T4mBDwPB1ph0P/vT6e2lXuQ=; b=bk2wxB1zNJ1+10LRvJNU5jP8eFNduZRZ8lsqoArN+d1+vRCYHKDwomRZ3Ya8AkCUdt nkGJAfhASWkvpx94mQN8TFRWvIvdKb2QEuTZNoake/j8tj5dXOUTzYqk+TWctYimn+N/ bobdnoucG0OmmuRFVtnpLPkh21NsgIFj6I3UInysZlqgLIDTHwG6mMwJkxdPg51Df8ac AWNfE9QNp44g7Dqd35phHR3KtTnmdDkSw/70uC4s5uJJA7AMpa2P46iit/tfqcSKBzxD +bDhQwqHpi59FgEBLemY8ZJjF3fpFgDbn6XDw2xpT6qp789n2qaGRjd8ZI7Df57mGQdR 36Zg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVveGxfrEE+d06ofIHff47s3KMv86sdFLjHC/mh8+Wpphie1wZM EUqb+LjA6CV4XZPEfmkbSI9LFg+4+1zruztc02Hqbw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxPX6vTEYq6x5eAL4kdMewdUKcE6kOLkS1/XnuFVPYFqgjiLIDWu/r+la/Te+iNG3KoxtoAmIP0CU7xocCGeSQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4b03:: with SMTP id y3mr12266242qka.215.1567113988934; Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:26:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201908291905.x7TJ5Bw8091371@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201908291905.x7TJ5Bw8091371@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:26:17 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FCP 20190401-ci_policy: CI policy To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Marcelo Araujo , Ian Lepore , FreeBSD Hackers , fcp@freebsd.org, Konstantin Belousov , Li-Wen Hsu , Kristof Provost X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46KFzV0hpKz4Ctc X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=JZd6loCg; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::72b) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.93 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[fcp@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.991,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[b.2.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.94)[ip: (-9.47), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.85), asn: 15169(-2.32), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Community Proposals List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 21:26:31 -0000 On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 1:05 PM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > (unneeded context removed) > > > > In either scenario we end up reducing test coverage, which means we?re > > > going to push more bugs towards users. > > > > > > > I totally agree. This is an overly-bureaucratic solution in search > of > > > > a problem. > > > > > > > > If this needs to be addressed at all (and I'm not sure it does), then > > > > another sentence or two in bullet item 10 in section 18.1 [*] of the > > > > committer's guide should be enough. And even then it needn't be > > > > overly-formal and should just mention that if a commit does break the > > > > build the committer is expected to be responsive to that problem and > > > > the commit might get reverted if they're unresponsive. I don't think > > > > we need schedules. > > > > > > > I do feel that?s a better argument. We?ve always had a policy of > > > reverting on request (AIUI), so this is more or less trying to be a > > > strong restatement of that, more than a fundamental shift in policy. > > > > > > > We don't have a policy to revert commit, actually revert commit is > > something bad, it is kind of punishment, I have been there, nobody wants > to > > be there. Stop to push this non-sense argument. > > Here in lies one of the fundemental problems, this view by some that > a "revert commit is something bad, it is kind of punishment". That is > not true. Reverts are GREAT things, they allow the tree to be returned > to a known state, usually quicly. The original commit is STILL IN SVN, > and a bad revert can guess what.. be reverted!. > > IMHO the project as a whole needs to overcome its fear of reverts and > start to use them for the great and powerful things that they are. > > This connection of bad and punishment needs to stop, and the sooner > the better. > > -- > Rod Grimes > rgrimes@freebsd.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fcp > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fcp-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >