From owner-freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Wed Dec 19 23:11:13 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7CAA134CC13 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:11:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: from mail-lf1-x12c.google.com (mail-lf1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B505B76094 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:11:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from steven@multiplay.co.uk) Received: by mail-lf1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id a16so16321972lfg.3 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:11:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=multiplay-co-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=c7Dea6s43TH+P3wVxfgVcN5wbIs+u84XhTeMRL6khbk=; b=e/9uaC1pKHXURuDsd1YoFWsJFUey3ACuiUKWQTjm7MTLY7Kgz/fWv9R4w1dTZJbX+R yE1yypRgT7LZJRMjI727z7BP6Z/o6tgcTD9iW+chMro/RdbyHnKvAHAdCuGEJzdx+RrX zoBWRU+q2KnRrqSe/BK7u8+Wk4C+QGrxN9Hdfzy9GfbjGYxFSQPd3Uz/Ng8P4MIbE4ye qOClWbvD4ATzalCQcBJMVkr5i20e7kQ5xC04KBGRyF5RblaClEGkN4VQxYZ/YTNpQ9/6 zgWgOEIyKsa2YffQz6vWPq8p3AD/uBl07vak7MdR3lWtFymfsahv4n5iZdEhpilU5PZf EQ3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=c7Dea6s43TH+P3wVxfgVcN5wbIs+u84XhTeMRL6khbk=; b=BhI4xkjqKSQF3Fm1Nsw9oWyAqeZpVjp3d8X3rYcA0/AY+yAew/2Wwkaa92XbUeevHe 30swyv6MnTu4rBEbmT1v9AnO0/oJbifmEW2hdkjWrhpsI3uR70BuBQTSk2Ir53VniNnF y0RfjGGmEc8qp7XISJxhi4XylMFW+STHKNNf1Gr/OtHHkYwQkJKgneTGN3DyozcqAK/m dl8zALu+YN+UEsyD9O8Qg8Lrn4zWmmjrJ/XZkkVyErllI67TY0YvhbaTuroSdh5vny4m 3z593pXtJaMXSkgRPtvzlf75ZUqfkWnWoUznMOo6roBfrQ0B5PC8bEjfq/jgiFOxfWrl 9X2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWY8ZRX8QpvTbqzXn7S2FQjV7aUuemePFI4y1IxpO3KsGZGUvvzB 3GIT1Ke31Qn5dacmmcTmf3Ky/coM+4/RbhPI5JdWFsYE X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/WkshJRYak8k9UVXV6nUDeBUZ3JSbUNY1YYEeLf17YgUK1L0LvsyKxuOo59khaRovJCBD3z71RJB1Adc2syZ/w= X-Received: by 2002:a19:5154:: with SMTP id f81mr14370165lfb.96.1545261070008; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:11:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Steven Hartland Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:10:58 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: The future of ZFS in FreeBSD To: Matthew Macy Cc: freebsd-current , freebsd-fs X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: B505B76094 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=multiplay-co-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=e/9uaC1p; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of steven@multiplay.co.uk designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::12c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=steven@multiplay.co.uk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.33 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.997,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[multiplay-co-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.992,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-fs@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[multiplay.co.uk]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[multiplay-co-uk.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ASPMX.L.GOOGLE.COM]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[c.2.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.5.4.1.0.0.a.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.52)[-0.516,0]; IP_SCORE(-0.62)[ipnet: 2a00:1450::/32(-1.60), asn: 15169(-1.40), country: US(-0.08)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[killing@multiplay.co.uk,steven@multiplay.co.uk]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[killing@multiplay.co.uk,steven@multiplay.co.uk]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 23:11:13 -0000 Sorry been off for a few weeks so must have missed that, please do prod me on again if you don=E2=80=99t see any response to anything not just this. L= ike many others I get so may emails across so many lists it=E2=80=99s more than like= ly I just missed it. That said would you say that with the right support we can make progress on the this prior to the port? I have to ask as the alternative version has been on the cusp for many years now so it=E2=80=99s feels more like a dista= nt memory than something that may happen, no disrespect to anyone involved, as I know all too well how hard it can be to get something like this over the line, especially when people have competing priorities. On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 at 22:52, Matthew Macy wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 14:47 Steven Hartland > wrote: > >> Thanks for the write up most appreciated. One of the more meaty >> differences is that FreeBSD ZFS still has the only merged and production >> ready TRIM support so my question would be are their any plans to addres= s >> this before creating the new port as going back to a world without TRIM >> support wouldn=E2=80=99t be something I=E2=80=99d look forward to. >> > > Well, then please follow up on the request I CC'd you on a week ago askin= g > that you engage on the deadlist based TRIM PR. That's a better forum for > discussing these details than lamenting in public lists. > > Thanks. > > -M > > > > >> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 at 06:51, Matthew Macy wrote: >> >>> The sources for FreeBSD's ZFS support are currently taken directly >>> from Illumos with local ifdefs to support the peculiarities of FreeBSD >>> where the Solaris Portability Layer (SPL) shims fall short. FreeBSD >>> has regularly pulled changes from Illumos and tried to push back any >>> bug fixes and new features done in the context of FreeBSD. In the past >>> few years the vast majority of new development in ZFS has taken place >>> in DelphixOS and zfsonlinux (ZoL). Earlier this year Delphix announced >>> that they will be moving to ZoL >>> https://www.delphix.com/blog/kickoff-future-eko-2018 This shift means >>> that there will be little to no net new development of Illumos. While >>> working through the git history of ZoL I have also discovered that >>> many races and locking bugs have been fixed in ZoL and never made it >>> back to Illumos and thus FreeBSD. This state of affairs has led to a >>> general agreement among the stakeholders that I have spoken to that it >>> makes sense to rebase FreeBSD's ZFS on ZoL. Brian Behlendorf >>> has graciously encouraged me to add FreeBSD support directly to ZoL >>> https://github.com/zfsonfreebsd/ZoF so that we might all have a single >>> shared code base. >>> >>> A port for ZoF can be found at https://github.com/miwi-fbsd/zof-port >>> Before it can be committed some additional functionality needs to be >>> added to the FreeBSD opencrypto framework. These can be found at >>> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18520 >>> >>> This port will provide FreeBSD users with multi modifier protection, >>> project quotas, encrypted datasets, allocation classes, vectorized >>> raidz, vectorized checksums, and various command line improvements. >>> >>> Before ZoF can be merged back in to ZoL several steps need to be taken: >>> - Integrate FreeBSD support into ZoL CI >>> - Have most of the ZFS test suite passing >>> - Complete additional QA testing at iX >>> >>> We at iX Systems need to port ZoL's EC2 CI scripts to work with >>> FreeBSD and make sure that most of the ZFS Test Suite (ZTS) passes. >>> Being integrated in to their CI will mean that, among other things, >>> most integration issues will be caught before a PR is merged upstream >>> rather than many months later when it is MFVed into FreeBSD. I=E2=80=99= m >>> hoping to submit the PR to ZoL some time in January. >>> >>> This port will make it easy for end users on a range of releases to >>> run the latest version of ZFS. Nonetheless, transitioning away from an >>> Illumos based ZFS is not likely to be entirely seamless. The >>> stakeholders I=E2=80=99ve spoken to all agree that this is the best pat= h >>> forward but some degree of effort needs to be made to accommodate >>> downstream consumers. The current plan is to import ZoF and unhook the >>> older Illumos based sources from the build on April 15th or two months >>> after iX systems QA deems ZoF stable - which ever comes later. The >>> Illumos based sources will be removed some time later - but well >>> before 13. This will give users a 3 month period during which both the >>> port and legacy Illumos based ZFS will be available to users. Pools >>> should interoperate between ZoF and legacy provided the user does not >>> enable any features available only in ZoF. We will try to accommodate >>> any downstream consumers in the event that they need that date pushed >>> back. We ask that any downstream consumers who are particularly >>> sensitive to changes start testing the port when it is formally >>> announced and report back any issues they have. I will do my best to >>> ensure that this message is communicated to all those who it may >>> concern. However, I can=E2=80=99t ensure that everyone reads these list= s. That >>> is the responsibility of -CURRENT users. >>> >>> -M >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> freebsd-fs@freebsd.org mailing list >>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-fs >>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-fs-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >>> >>