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Date:      Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:17:33 +0100
From:      Chris Rees <utisoft@gmail.com>
To:        Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>
Cc:        Dave Hayes <dave@jetcafe.org>, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Resistance to documentation? (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?)
Message-ID:  <CADLo838ByY7MNsPN_REARApDYPpMxb4w6ZTwOkG5fVqj4V9Qag@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.00.1207181024250.4615@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>
References:  <20120717183221.298430@gmx.com> <20120717153505.42633535@bhuda.mired.org> <5005D181.8080709@jetcafe.org> <alpine.BSF.2.00.1207181024250.4615@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>

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On 18 Jul 2012 09:39, "Wojciech Puchar" <wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think this is unintentionally specious reasoning. No offense intended.
:)
>>
> true
>
>
>> The program itself is fairly trivial to write.
>
>
> i don't need such a tool, but if it would be separate tool, then it is
all right if someone like to write it. This would be unix way.
>
>
>> So it's really not possible to write the tool and associated
documentation "myself". Otherwise I would. The "pointless debating" is
really an attempt to get a critical mass of knowledgeable developers to
agree to participate in
>
>
> not really. the idea was to integrate it with shell and turn on it by
default, prefering newbies over norml users, and making another change that
would actually prevent getting knowledge to newbie.
>
>
>> I've been using FreeBSD since the 90s. My perception (over many years of
observation) is that the FreeBSD people most able to document what exists
and how to use it seem to also have the greatest resistance to writing any
documentation.
>
>
> what do you mean? FreeBSD manual pages is what i consider great part.
>
> i mean manual pages. handbook is not always up to date but still fine for
a NEW USER to learn FreeBSD.
>
> And that's the right way.
>
> "creators", "helpers" like proposed reminds me windows. A "Help" that
doesn't really help learning anything.
>
>
> There are already lots of stupid things that is ALREADY done in FreeBSD
without reason.
>
> Few examples:
>
> 1) XML output from some sysctl variables. It isn't just stupid. It's sad.
> 2) bsdlabel -e allows editing only when NONE of partitions are
open/mounted, in spite that they are not modified. In FreeBSD 6 it allowed
editing everytime and all worked.
>
> "Preventing people doing stupid things would prevent doing clever things".
>
> OK there is gpart now but still bsdlabel is far easier and useful.

Bsdlabel was a monstrosity that required a calculator to hand to do
anything useful.

Gpart on the other hand is easily scriptable.

Chris



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