From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 9 16:12:43 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F805C4; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 16:12:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qe0-x233.google.com (mail-qe0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c02::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93B1C2244; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 16:12:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qe0-f51.google.com with SMTP id q19so796540qeb.10 for ; Wed, 09 Oct 2013 09:12:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=iZ2hKrav6oH6bEEuIT0uOAACtUbHPjTKPUtbKmzvZGc=; b=Mw4SFMu8Tcvh7bSYlJ4wlXLkSfMFGODtoFDBQghS4GzC+pRJdskp+Vsv7HDa2ZRMN2 XXygw8SF28kQe7c+mcU/INELtVCufghTN/L6PgF36Fj2D2c3BdnxhvJzTkpJylZ3S8BQ T+st2pdH+gUi251uua8EfS8zXlO3ZpubjsktUOsBZ0UazmxAVfKGKHmHrWSbkCYoAaoB 91QtlNPyFF7JWjUWAdUVxAe2H5Q6Pvmg9DWRhxQzq90OQuGxk0t080sATJlzA6G7n/qa 4DG1Yp2o/ow6SZuoLEByXMUFQZvu3DU44SFIDrxG/poE+DBgHuMu1UjheGbRFlxK+MZD +fFA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.109.170 with SMTP id ht10mr10461063qeb.27.1381335162607; Wed, 09 Oct 2013 09:12:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.39.33 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 09:12:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <52555D1C.8010407@freebsd.org> References: <60177810-8DC4-4EA3-8040-A834B79039D2@orthanc.ca> <52538EDC.2080001@freebsd.org> <52541202.3010707@mu.org> <20131008.170444.74714516.sthaug@nethelp.no> <52542BD4.5070706@FreeBSD.org> <52542E1D.9000000@mu.org> <52555D1C.8010407@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 09:12:42 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: rcs From: Freddie Cash To: Julian Elischer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: Alfred Perlstein , FreeBSD-Current X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 16:12:44 -0000 On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 6:41 AM, Julian Elischer wrote: > On 10/9/13 2:35 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >> >> You're right on the money, to be honest this is one of the reasons why >>> I've switched to using OSX as my desktop OS. >>> >>> zsh, vim, screen by default. and upgrades work. At the end of the day >>> I'm spending time doing work, not mucking about my workspace to make it >>> usable for development. >>> >>> I think this was brought up at BSDCan in the discussion about making >>> FreeBSD a more featured development platform. >>> >>> Speaking of... has anyone tried PCBSD? >>> >> >> PC-BSD isn't much different from FreeBSD. The installer is GUI and >> support >> ZFS, there are some GUI setup tools on first boot for X, there are some >> GUI >> tools to select binary drivers for X, and there =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bare wo= rking pkgng repos >> available. >> >> I had a lot of issues with PC-BSD 9.0 and 9.1 as I was trying to do thin= gs >> "the FreeBSD way" which broke a lot of things that were done "the PC-BSD >> way" (aka don't manually edit config files used for booting). >> >> =E2=80=8BSwitching to the "rolling-release" (aka PC-BSD 9-STABLE) and mo= ving all >> my >> config file edits into .conf.local fixed my issues. Things ha= ve >> been running smooth, and I finally understand the beauty and simplicity = of >> freebsd-update + pkg. OS gets updated once per month, packages get >> updated >> twice per month, no more compiling things from source. It's like using >> Ubuntu/Debian but with the power and features of FreeBSD. :) >> =E2=80=8B >> > > When they went to a ZFS-only system, using GRUB, with no alternative, the= n > I'm afraid they lost me. > I want a root filesystem on UFS for reliabailty and simpleness. I can > debug it's media if needed. > Before then I really liked it (though ther eis not enough information on > how it works interneally if you want to use it. > hopefully that will come.. and I LIKE PBIs FreeBSD should adopt PBIs for > sure. > With PBIs you could make even quite base items separately installable. > versioning problems go away. > There's no GRUB in a default install of PC-BSD 9.0, 9.1, or 9.2. Even on a ZFS-only setup (which is what I run). It's using the FreeBSD loader, with custom artwork and menus. There's also nothing stopping you from installing / onto UFS. At least, I didn't see anything that would prevent it when I installed it originally. Granted, that was with 9.1, so the installer may be different in 9.2. I tried to use PBIs, but really messed up the system doing so. /usr was just a directory on /, on a USB stick, and ran out of room. Tried various things to get it off / and b0rked the system. Even after moving to ZFS-on-root and getting away from filesystem limits, I still couldn't get PBIs to upgrade properly. Since moving away from PBIs, away from ports, away from pkg_* tools, and sticking strictly with pkg, everything has been running smoothly. The experience with pkg on PC-BSD gives me hope for FreeBSD again (too many issues in the past with ports and pkg_* tools, even when using only portmaster). For desktops, a binary-only system using freebsd-update and pkg is so much nicer. For servers, implementing your own freebsd-update server and pkg repo (via poudriere) is so much nicer. If I never have to compile a port on a remote system again, I will be a happy man. :) To each their own, of course. :) --=20 Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com