From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon May 9 19:27:05 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C59D6106566B for ; Mon, 9 May 2011 19:27:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de [217.11.53.44]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A4BC8FC0C for ; Mon, 9 May 2011 19:27:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p5B155D47.dip.t-dialin.net [91.21.93.71]) by mail.ebusiness-leidinger.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 11A0F844015; Mon, 9 May 2011 21:26:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from unknown (IO.Leidinger.net [192.168.2.110]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2194F1256; Mon, 9 May 2011 21:26:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 21:26:44 +0200 From: Alexander Leidinger To: Devin Teske Message-ID: <20110509212644.000066ad@unknown> In-Reply-To: <7CD48B80-1280-4DF0-B383-B4134E6EF2DA@vicor.com> References: <65D3163B-427B-41F6-80B9-7BA4AF794939@vicor.com> <57a102e1.9eab.12fcda25c3a.Coremail.while1@163.com> <313C949D-643A-422F-98A4-72C9F3AE3181@vicor.com> <20110508211344.00006754@unknown> <7CD48B80-1280-4DF0-B383-B4134E6EF2DA@vicor.com> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.8cvs47 (GTK+ 2.16.6; i586-pc-mingw32msvc) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-EBL-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-EBL-MailScanner-ID: 11A0F844015.A3DE4 X-EBL-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-EBL-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, spamhaus-ZEN, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-1, required 6, autolearn=disabled, ALL_TRUSTED -1.00) X-EBL-MailScanner-From: alexander@leidinger.net X-EBL-MailScanner-Watermark: 1305574011.62998@4wEcBzFk6WY5yNp0xfcDqA X-EBL-Spam-Status: No X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:30:58 +0000 Cc: FreeBSD Hackers , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E5=85=B0=E6=B8=85?= Subject: Re: [UPDATE] New Boot-Loader Menu -- version 1.4 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 19:27:05 -0000 On Sun, 8 May 2011 13:45:55 -0700 Devin Teske wrote: > On May 8, 2011, at 12:13 PM, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > > > On Sun, 8 May 2011 10:48:55 -0700 Devin Teske > > wrote: > > > >> I would like to see general consensus from the community for > >> separating the items before moving ahead with such a non-trivial > >> change. > > > > IMO: > > - I agree that there are two different types of actions > > - having 2 distinct blocks looks like a good idea to me > > (I didn't had a look at the code, if you only have the text > > in the variables and the numbers get added automatically, > > maybe you can add variables for inbetween items which > > are pure text and do not get a number, and they are not > > displayed if the variable is empty) > > - I do not think that we need two different namespaces here > > -> reorder the items, use incrementing numbers no matter > > which type it is (ACPI would be number 4 in the example then) > > > All-in-all, I love the suggestion. > > A few notes: > - I also agree that there are two different types of actions > - Significant changes would need to be made. > - I'd like to take the gradual approach > - You're right, it could be done without two different namespaces > > However, there's one very important fact... > > The current menu is "numbers only" which means that people that use > the menu often will be impacted in a non-trivial way if we re-order > the numbers. > > The gradual approach would have us accept a new menu (such as > loader_menu-1.4) that enables the use of hotkeys. Get people used to > using the hotkeys for awhile before re-ording (or perhaps even > taking-away) the numbers. > > What do you think of the gradual approach? If you want to spend some years... IMO it's either - change now or - no change, never ever or - change if special variable is set I do not think it is really an option to change it only for new installs but keep the numbers for installed ones as they are (if there is a way to do this). I also think that there will always be some people which never switch to hotkeys. FYI: I never got the numbers into my brain, I always use SPACE to pause and then read which number to press. This could be because I do not (re)boot systems much, but I expect/hope that there are more people which do the same. With the hotkeys this may change, as they are easy to associate with the English word for the action. I'm all for gradual improvements, but there are things which can not be done gradually. This usability improvement is one of the later ones IMO. If nobody complains that such a separation is very hard to get and that it is too hard to press SPACE and that the ordering of the new entries can only be provided by someone with a twisted brain, I would do it, as it looks like very good and better understandable usability improvement which should get new users (to FreeBSD but maybe not to the Unix way) to better get suited with FreeBSD. Maybe an explicit variable to set to go back to the old order if there are too much voices which tell it would violate POLA? Bye, Alexander. -- http://www.Leidinger.net Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID = B0063FE7 http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild @ FreeBSD.org : PGP ID = 72077137