From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Dec 10 17:58:48 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3CBE93067 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:58:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D5417A2C1 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:58:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.195.18.98]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue105 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 0Md4Fu-1egAx73QGI-00IDw6; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:58:35 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 18:58:34 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Baho Utot Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CUDA under FreeBSD Message-Id: <20171210185834.7b244303.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <34331.107.77.207.211.1512384505.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <0545699d-9df7-ced2-4990-27e3ecb8e531@ShaneWare.Biz> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:0uglPqHtzDPpNcIau+L63pCy/8CAXHAur7LRf+6rnJnH8fJcVMa TfP6sRaZMmMoRtu6/NzyL8cNRMruKFjL3kf/xDlgqc+Ue5w6M9WcxbGUkRFZKwJ+O0oo3FS YCKmOXpiqmW90pK8tXnjVIJO08K6WIAGABOzn8nz1P1GS1X6fZU0ZmwsW9lRI9FIkAScdZ1 CMl0xf4NzccALzG+EYtxw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:8rmGvmKo5i4=:Wnot9qmgj5xh3utcWIjxXs jqV3qClzG2gvWmyzoRBPhitDisEqppFu42xmewAeWn/lEqfYgoI3CgUbu2UJdtXcT8sgvL0kt obtn9CY1n/ixI7tHYDGJRSMrE2Z7Khf1VhM1MzaZxZb8uVywdKLmu/5fbApVBNstkZyIpz57D iV2oXWW657aSRvr2R0IBqqQytxtNu2sUnI7fTYMw9XNLilgiOX2W6HRxGr4KFegFuBzSv6BJU 0sZKSKXYRKIIpdQPL4FsdE/Z7KQBVgj5+QLmbkKQ/fytvdq6xp4J20iOMOFADKFgWZ7bj5UdP yEbQ69nJLU46TSBXRLGumP9THkZWjHo+BuNavMOHj5QQBqNsCcqgqhVjoQBtTSOk3LmHSQw9X NhPLaoBXGFpjmHCRLx7Sb/QwzXZTkv70NkTw8xDdalGhJcXygtJ8HLeQ3lhSl9GnKszNRszFo P3kC3A+ZBwZiUpGYZYsxHmD3aV1hxBhJYlTs7Ik5vj/eD9pn4GoEhqypxUtU0E7FGLjnjXqyy BdmIj/9YPtnn7ydbqBJCVe0J5oMZnxTLLIVJZ3sJe9ibLehlTnPZuuO92lmq8xBNAGX20n0I0 z/9+5r9d7IU6OE2ZWUv72EPmVT59G3+j0Z0K8hs1fP6h+CGVIVjD7204eDU8YP9nPEGP81A6n AOxxphIiau5hrcrzegVh/m756X+zDyU21thGXsVvrzhDeznlP4yhHJSXlUQ55sFBCKo5JLd6O 2jGo/xoDZWNUE0N4ZME97RxZjS7bpcSH02Pqcy4ZqhzKGJviqjNwRtjqCOM= X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:58:49 -0000 On Sat, 9 Dec 2017 22:13:40 -0500, Baho Utot wrote: > On 12/9/2017 9:45 PM, Jan Beich wrote: > > Shane Ambler writes: > > > >> On 04/12/2017 21:19, galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu wrote: > >> > >>> On Mon, December 4, 2017 4:24 am, Carmel NY wrote: > >>>> Out of morbid curiosity, I was wondering if anyone could tell me > >>>> the real reason that Nvidia does not support CUDA under > >>> Arrogance would be my guess. > >> The morbid part is that they give us the linux libcuda, so we should be > >> able to run linux binaries that use cuda, just not native apps. > > Modern CUDA toolkit is 64bit but runtime only works on 32bit (bug 206711). > > Building as -m32 is probably still possible but may not fit all workloads > > nor run as fast. > > > >>>> FreeBSD? Also, what are the realistic expectations for it getting > >>>> supported shortly? > >>> Zero is my estimate. The way to let one's steam about them is just > >>> not to buy ther hardware. Their attitude to open sourse and > >>> unwillingness to disclose details of their hardware was always much > >>> worse than that of their competitors (ATI/AMD, matrox...). > >>> > >>> This is just my opinion based on my subjective observations. > >> I'm sure on an episode of bsdnow, they mentioned asking an nvidia dev > >> at one of the conferences and they said there shouldn't be any technical > >> reason, it just isn't enabled in the build and they would look into it. > >> Still hasn't helped any. > > Just like Vulkan, just like KMS, just like encoding/capture acceleration. > > NVIDIA always conveniently forgets about FreeBSD. However, the ailment > > isn't really specific to NVIDIA but affects most binary blob vendors. > > For one, Widevine CDM is maintained by Google but EME itself was pushed > > to W3C by Netflix, a FreeBSD vendor which conveniently forgot a browser > > can run on FreeBSD. > > > > What is FreeBSD market share? FreeBSD has no market share, as it does not participate in market measurements such as "units sold" or "licenses obtained". You cannot - I repeat: you _cannot_ tell the number of FreeBSD installations. You can hardly guess it. The reason is simple: As I said, FreeBSD does not count "units sold" or "licenses obtained", so all the installations made do not increase any numbers. Additionally, FreeBSD is being used in non-PC and non-server systems, such as embedded solutions, appliances, routers, switches, firewalls, IoT, and so on. You usually don't even _know_ if FreeBSD is running on a specific device you are using. The termini technic you are searching for are: 1. usage share = how many installations are present, how many people are using it, etc. 2. mind share = how many people or organisations are aware of FreeBSD existing Those are numbers you also can hardly guess, and they are still much more significant (especially no. 1) than market share. > Could be the market share of FreeBSD is so small it is not worth their time? The usage share (if you want to understand this as market share, or at least as an approximation) is not significant for the manufacturers producing those devices - and supplying the corresponding software. So it's simply not worth their time as it doesn't generate revenue that justifies that effort. > Maybe the FreeBSD developers are too abrasive? I don't think so. Typically developers invest their time in getting hardware running when the required specifications and documentation is made available, and some devices even get reverse-engineered support. > Or maybe some other reason? > Linux is everywhere so maybe that is why Linux gets all the glory? That is quite possible. Top computers are running Linux, top companies are using Linux. Linux runs PCs, servers, peripherial devices and appliances, so you could even say: Linux runs the whole Internet... so, yes, it actually is everywhere. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...