From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 9 16:23:08 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E336BA90; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 16:23:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fjwcash@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qe0-x22d.google.com (mail-qe0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c02::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 917FE2317; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 16:23:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qe0-f45.google.com with SMTP id 8so783045qea.4 for ; Wed, 09 Oct 2013 09:23:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=/OYtnDc/mxx7OwqXmeEXhupeeQBOMw9R5JwHnMyBsBA=; b=uc9/WkbcWYf5xKhzzbkSBgkkaZU118VPsWIT99rU0YtY4Z80InPj7hW+iDUfr8FV7g B0pWxNQeWrWmucDzvRS8cINDCPZcWfEbK0JiIyXOMWhBzp5l8gF340VJ0aBLcwm/3OId SrF6M1PkzGRTX9jUT6txess87EABfDKTp4bU8JZgX35z0UyNczV3aTs9HxZ1XqX60wDz 5TrEM5kngG0GfmOh5ZfFBSZWx62jNrbZjLPpydUtoTmSG/rk5zFersvRCoBhM3MDPn5C z08tH8m2zw6EjGDcaNFAXWIz7Bt1Pi8Bgp0RWKEOr8CsPSmUOmu1yiZJxIpPZtLFahqm LchQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.54.66 with SMTP id p2mr6409681qag.87.1381335784611; Wed, 09 Oct 2013 09:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.39.33 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Oct 2013 09:23:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <60177810-8DC4-4EA3-8040-A834B79039D2@orthanc.ca> <52538EDC.2080001@freebsd.org> <52541202.3010707@mu.org> <20131008.170444.74714516.sthaug@nethelp.no> <52542BD4.5070706@FreeBSD.org> <52542E1D.9000000@mu.org> <52555D1C.8010407@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 09:23:04 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: rcs From: Freddie Cash To: Julian Elischer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: FreeBSD-Current X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 16:23:08 -0000 On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: > On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 6:41 AM, Julian Elischer wrote= : > >> On 10/9/13 2:35 AM, Freddie Cash wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>> >>> You're right on the money, to be honest this is one of the reasons why >>>> I've switched to using OSX as my desktop OS. >>>> >>>> zsh, vim, screen by default. and upgrades work. At the end of the da= y >>>> I'm spending time doing work, not mucking about my workspace to make i= t >>>> usable for development. >>>> >>>> I think this was brought up at BSDCan in the discussion about making >>>> FreeBSD a more featured development platform. >>>> >>>> Speaking of... has anyone tried PCBSD? >>>> >>> >>> PC-BSD isn't much different from FreeBSD. The installer is GUI and >>> support >>> ZFS, there are some GUI setup tools on first boot for X, there are some >>> GUI >>> tools to select binary drivers for X, and there =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bare w= orking pkgng repos >>> available. >>> >>> I had a lot of issues with PC-BSD 9.0 and 9.1 as I was trying to do >>> things >>> "the FreeBSD way" which broke a lot of things that were done "the PC-BS= D >>> way" (aka don't manually edit config files used for booting). >>> >>> =E2=80=8BSwitching to the "rolling-release" (aka PC-BSD 9-STABLE) and m= oving all >>> my >>> config file edits into .conf.local fixed my issues. Things >>> have >>> been running smooth, and I finally understand the beauty and simplicity >>> of >>> freebsd-update + pkg. OS gets updated once per month, packages get >>> updated >>> twice per month, no more compiling things from source. It's like using >>> Ubuntu/Debian but with the power and features of FreeBSD. :) >>> =E2=80=8B >>> >> >> When they went to a ZFS-only system, using GRUB, with no alternative, >> then I'm afraid they lost me. >> I want a root filesystem on UFS for reliabailty and simpleness. I can >> debug it's media if needed. >> Before then I really liked it (though ther eis not enough information on >> how it works interneally if you want to use it. >> hopefully that will come.. and I LIKE PBIs FreeBSD should adopt PBIs fo= r >> sure. >> With PBIs you could make even quite base items separately installable. >> versioning problems go away. >> > > There's no GRUB in a default install of PC-BSD 9.0, 9.1, or 9.2. Even on > a ZFS-only setup (which is what I run). It's using the FreeBSD loader, > with custom artwork and menus. > =E2=80=8BHrm, it seems they've changed things with the 9.2 installer. It d= oes use GRUB2 (ewwww!) for the boot loader, and integrates support for ZFS boot environments (via beadm) into it. :( Shame they didn't use the BE support in the FreeBSD loader for this. Wonder if my 9-STABLE-based PC-BSD install will get "upgraded" to GRUB? --=20 Freddie Cash fjwcash@gmail.com