Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 02:07:07 -0500 From: Brian T.Schellenberger <bts@babbleon.org> To: "Douglas R. Spindler" <spindler@dnai.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A question from a convert from Windows to FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020123070707.87A0C3EF9@i8k.babbleon.org> In-Reply-To: <11a501c1a3d1$d44ea220$6600640a@attbi.com> References: <0ffe01c1a371$661d1b20$6600640a@attbi.com> <20020123033407.5C9E63EF9@i8k.babbleon.org> <11a501c1a3d1$d44ea220$6600640a@attbi.com>
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On Wednesday 23 January 2002 12:50 am, you wrote: > I just want to get the OS loaded on my machine. I have not found any DOCs > that tell me what files to download to make a bootable CD. The FreeBSD.org > web site says it is easy to install. It maybe easy, but I can't find the > docs on what files I need. The links are to directories. Sorry to be so > inept! The easiest way is to download the ISOs. No, the easiest way is to order the CD-ROMs from FreeBSD mall. The doc should be clearer that this is easiest. The second easiest is to download the ISOs and burn them into your own CD. Doing the thing with the directories is lots harder, but the doc pages are a little too "nuetral" in explaining this, IMHO. A big "start here if this is all new" that really tries to get people to order the physical media would IMHO be a big improvement. Plus it would get a little more money into the FreeBSD project which isn't a bad thing, really. > > It only took four hours, but I have created the boot floppies and am part > way into the install. > > At least I know people out there are supporting me. > > Thanks > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian T.Schellenberger" <bts@babbleon.org> > To: "Kris Kennaway" <kris@FreeBSD.ORG>; "Bob Giesen" > <BobGiesen@earthlink.net> > Cc: "Kris Kennaway" <kris@obsecurity.org>; "Douglas R. Spindler" > <spindler@dnai.com>; <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 19:34 > Subject: Re: A question from a convert from Windows to FreeBSD > > > I think that FreeBSD installation is quite straightforward if you start > > out > > > by ordering the CD set. To compare an install of FreeBSD straight over > > the > > > network to a CD-based install of Windows is preposterous; plus, an > > install > > of > > > Windows is not that easy--I've had more failures than than with FreeBSD. > > > > To compare on install of FreeBSD to a PRE-installed Windows (all most > > folks > > > ever see of Windows) is like cutting off one runner's legs and then > > complaining that he should be doing more to keep up . . . > > > > And of course the worse part is the slice/fdisk stuff, but if you just > > give > > > the whole disk over, it's easy, and Windows fdisk is a lot harder to work > > with than FreeBSD's and provides even less assistance. > > > > So I don't think there's any apples-to-apples comparison by which FreeBSD > > comes out worse off . . . at least not in my experience. > > > > On Tuesday 22 January 2002 07:17 pm, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 02:15:33PM -0600, Bob Giesen wrote: > > > > > > Here's my question, why do you guys make converting so difficult? > > > > > > > > > > That's a very subjective question, wouldn't you say? > > > > > > > > Not very, no. I've been a computer junkie for 20 years (well, > > pretty > > > > > soon -- I got my first one in Feb., 1981), have made a living at UNIX > > > > system administration, vocally advocate FreeBSD to any who will > > listen -- > > > > > yet it is obvious to me why a recent convert from the dark side > > (a.k.a. > > > > > micro$haft) would consider FreeBSD to be difficult to install. > > > > Objectively speaking (and I'm sure that it could be quantified in > > terms > > > > > of time and keystrokes), there is not much of a comparison when it > > comes > > > > > to ease of installation -- which is a major reason that FreeBSD > > > > installations number in the thousands, rather than millions. > > > > > > No, it is subjective, because for example when I first transferred to > > > FreeBSD a number of years ago I found the instructions very > > > straightforward. The fact that other people find them more confusing > > > is what makes it subjective, by definition. > > > > > > If we're comparing FreeBSD installations with Windows installations, I > > > spent the entire weekend (literally!) last week trying to install > > > Win98 on my K6-2/550 with quite standard hardware. Win98 would boot > > > from CD but refuse to load the ATAPI drivers to read the rest of the > > > CD; the Promise IDE controller wasn't detected out of the box, so I > > > had to transfer my HDs to the motherboard controllers in order to > > > install onto them once I got the CD media to work; the motherboard > > > needed me to download 4 drivers in order for it to work without > > > crashing; and my graphics card (Matrox dual-head G400) didn't work out > > > of the box, and still causes Windows 98 to BSOD at startup every 2 out > > > of 3 startups no matter what driver magic I've tried. Then Windows > > > Update suggested a new driver for my intel fxp ethernet card which > > > totally bodged it up, and I had to do major system file surgery to > > > recover a working driver and stop it from continually trying to > > > install the broken one. I had to disable power management because the > > > default settings cause the system to hang when it tries to suspend. > > > Then I found last night that the FAT16 partition I created using Win98 > > > FDISK was created right in the middle of my UFS partition which was > > > already on the disk. > > > > > > If I didn't have such expertise with Windows administration there is > > > no way in hell I'd have been able to get this thing running. I can > > > hardly think of more things which could have gone wrong with the > > > installation to have made it more difficult. > > > > > > By contrast, FreeBSD installed and runs on the same system without a > > > single hitch. > > > > > > > This is why: > > > > > Since FreeBSD is a community supported project... > > > > > > > > If unsophisticated users could easily install FreeBSD and a free > > > > office app (such as StarOffice or KDE) that would operate on all > > > > those m$office files in circulation, I think you'd see a lot more > > > > home > > offices > > > > > with FreeBSD as the system of choice. After all, how many people > > > > wouldn't love to get something for free that will do all they really > > need > > > > > of the topheavy m$office apps? > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > These are all pretty good statements, but unless someone (you?) has > > > time to sit down and make these improvements they won't happen. > > > That's how it works around here, of course.. > > > > > > Kris > > > > -- > > Brian T. Schellenberger . . . . . . . bts@wnt.sas.com (work) > > Brian, the man from Babble-On . . . . bts@babbleon.org (personal) > > http://www.babbleon.org > > > > -------> Free Dmitry Sklyarov! (let him go home) <----------- > > > > http://www.eff.org http://www.programming-freedom.org -- Brian T. Schellenberger . . . . . . . bts@wnt.sas.com (work) Brian, the man from Babble-On . . . . bts@babbleon.org (personal) http://www.babbleon.org -------> Free Dmitry Sklyarov! 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