From owner-freebsd-current Fri Jul 5 19:46:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC9E37B400 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 19:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.rpi.edu (mail.rpi.edu [128.113.22.40]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7405343E09 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 19:46:08 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from drosih@rpi.edu) Received: from [128.113.24.47] (gilead.netel.rpi.edu [128.113.24.47]) by mail.rpi.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g662k4dg180598; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:46:05 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: drosih@mail.rpi.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1025921146.881.16.camel@lobster.originative.co.uk> References: <1025862341.1573.40.camel@lobster.originative.co.uk> <20020705095258.GC775@starjuice.net> <1025864161.1573.45.camel@lobster.originative.co.uk> <3D261EA4.ABC3AEC@mindspring.com> <1025921146.881.16.camel@lobster.originative.co.uk> Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:46:03 -0400 To: Paul Richards From: Garance A Drosihn Subject: Re: Removing perl in make world Cc: Terry Lambert , Sheldon Hearn , current@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 3:05 AM +0100 7/6/02, Paul Richards wrote: >Let's start with a premise: No-one running current is using >it for anything other than developing FreeBSD. This is assumption is too limiting. People running -current are doing it to test the latest builds. What they *do* to test it is their business. Ie, if I want to install some port in /usr instead of /usr/local, that is something I should be able to do. >Given that premise, then there shouldn't be anything in /usr >outside of usr/local, that wasn't put there by make world. >Likewise the same should be true of /sbin and /bin. > >Therefore running, > >find $listofdirs -newermt $date -delete > >should be perfectly OK since it's only going to clear out old >files that are no longer part of FreeBSD Wrong. It will delete files which were not installed by the FreeBSD install process, but that is *not* necessarily the same thing as "old files". The fact that installworld did not install the file does not mean that *I* do not want that file to be right where it is. How you test your -current system is your own business. There should be no command as part of 'installworld' which assumes how I am going to test my system, or what things I am testing on my system. No blind 'find' command should be automatically deleting any files on my system. The perplexing part of this debate is that I do see what problem you are trying to solve, and I *do* think it would be valuable to address that issue. I do not see what is so perplexing about having a separate script, just like mergemaster, which a person could run WHEN THEY WANT TO, and which would *LIST* what files are in their system that would not be in a "pristine install of -current". It could even go thru, just like mergemaster, and ask "What do you want to do about this file? (Remove, LeaveIt)". People reporting a problem could even be told to run this script, so any other person who is debugging that problem can realize exactly what is different about the first person's system. I can see that someone might say "Ah, you have some old perl installed, and therefore I will ignore your bug report for now". What would be the PROBLEM with THAT solution? Please answer that question, instead of just reinterating how you would like to add find command which will blindly delete files from the system of every developer who is on current. If 'installworld' starts erasing files on me, then I am going to have to reserve a larger block of time to cvsup/buildworld. I will react to that by building world less often, and that isn't going to help any wish for "valuable debugging". As it is, I have spent more than 60 hours in the last month just trying to do a buildworld of current, only to be foiled by one problem or another. (nothing dramatic, it's mainly been a matter of picking the wrong times to cvsup...). And here I am on a friday night, doing a new buildworld while running a -current system from April 23rd, because all of those attempts have failed. 60 hours of my free time in the past month with not a damn thing to show for it, and you're going to make installworlds on -current even more of a hassle. Pardon me if I don't signup for it. I will simply drop back to using stable and I won't bother to help out one bit with testing -current. If you think that -current needs FEWER people trying to run it, then feel free to screw up the installworld target. That's just my 2 cents worth. I see the problem you're trying to address, and if most developers of -current see this as a major problem, then maybe it's better to solve the problem and drive away a few other developers. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = gad@gilead.netel.rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or gad@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute or drosih@rpi.edu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message