From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 24 17:38:09 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25AC11065672 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 17:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sterling@camdensoftware.com) Received: from wh2.interactivevillages.com (wh2.interactivevillages.com [75.125.250.34]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C6EA8FC08 for ; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 17:38:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from 174-21-99-21.tukw.qwest.net ([174.21.99.21] helo=_HOSTNAME_) by wh2.interactivevillages.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OciTu-0002A3-CQ for freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:25:51 -0700 Received: by _HOSTNAME_ (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:38:03 -0700 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:38:03 -0700 From: Chip Camden To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <20100724173803.GD50085@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <20100724062446.GD78741@guilt.hydra> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="C+ts3FVlLX8+P6JN" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100724062446.GD78741@guilt.hydra> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Company: Camden Software Consulting URL: http://camdensoftware.com X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - wh2.interactivevillages.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - camdensoftware.com Cc: Subject: Re: BSD logo X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 17:38:09 -0000 --C+ts3FVlLX8+P6JN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quoth Chad Perrin on Saturday, 24 July 2010: > Disclaimer: >=20 > I do not represent the FreeBSD project in any way, shape, or form. I am > certain any such people would be much nicer and more polite about this > than me. I'm sure I would be much nicer and more polite about it if I > became a representative of the FreeBSD project at some point in the > future. Because I am not officially affiliated with the project at all, > though, I feel free to be brutally honest. >=20 >=20 > On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 06:01:07AM +0400, Victor Skovorodnikov wrote: > >=20 > > This may sound strange but I have a question about logo. Why such a > > logo for BSD? What is the meaning of that logo? >=20 > It's a reference to "daemons", a type of software that runs in the > background "listening" for connections. The term "daemon" has ancient > roots in Greek mythology and has nothing to do with more recent Christian > notions of "demons". In short, mythological "daemons" are basically just > supernatural beings of lower power and stature than the pantheon of Greek > gods, and computer "daemons" are helpful programs. >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > I have always been thinking of trying FreeBSD but as a Christian I get > > deterred by its un-Christian logo. >=20 > Good grief. Are you referring to the cartoon character? >=20 > It's a cartoon character. It's not an attempt to lure your children to > join Satan's armies. There's no reason to be "deterred" from giving > FreeBSD a try just because of a friendly cartoon character. >=20 > People who value their wool socks should not be deterred from using MS > products because of the stupid moth mascot used by MSN, and those who > dislike arctic climates shouldn't be deterred from using Linux-based > systems because Linux uses a penguin as its mascot. By the same token, > the notion that a red cartoon character with horns should deter a > Christian from using FreeBSD is kind of silly. >=20 > I was a member of a military unit known as the Red Devils years ago. I > did not feel like I was being corrupted by Evil. Perhaps you would be > deterred from being my friend because of this, nonetheless. If that is > the case, though, I think I'm better off without you. >=20 > While I normally prefer to take an inclusive approach to dealing with > people who run into obstacles in their approach to thinking about OSes, > there are cases where I simply feel the urge to throw my hands in the air > and giving up on someone. Such cases are those where it seems likely > that some kind of closed-minded idolatry (which is exactly what this is: > taking a cartoony mascot as some kind of Manifest Presence of a > supernatural, superhuman Force, Principle, or Being) is going on. Either > you will get over it, or you will not, and it is only a very faint hope > that pointing out the ludicrousness of your objection that compels me to > respond at all. >=20 > If you're talking about the weird sex toy thing that has become the > new(er) official FreeBSD logo, however, it seems the FreeBSD project > simply can't please some people. I'm pretty sure that was made so > ambiguous and largely meaningless specifically because of fear of > negative reactions from those who cannot imagine going through life > without being offended -- and it still isn't working, if that's the > reason for your complaint. >=20 > It may be "un-Christian", but if so it's "un-Christian" like a penguin or > a moth is "un-Christian", and not like a burning cross would be (and I'd > call that "anti-Christian" instead, anyway). >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > Have you considered changing it to something else? Doesn't have to be > > an angel, but perhaps something neutral ;-) ? >=20 > I hope the logo doesn't change because of silly requests from those who > cannot have religious beliefs without also being reasonable human beings. >=20 > This whole thing reminds me of a conversation I had in the early '90s > where someone told me that a Nine Inch Nails song called "God's Money" > was blasphemous. Of course, there is no Nine Inch Nails song by that > name, and the song the person was talking about ("Head Like A Hole") > doesn't have the words "God's money" in it at all. The guy had misheard > something and leaped to an erroneous conclusion without bothering to > consider the possibility he was just a reactionary idiot. >=20 > Someone's sure to call me intolerant or abrasive as a result of this > email, but frankly, I don't care. Guilty as charged: I am not tolerant > of intolerant, willfully ignorant fundamentalists, regardless of what > fundamentalism infects them. >=20 > It's not like you couldn't look up the answer to your question about the > meaning of the cartoon mascot character on the Internet fairly easily > anyway, assuaging your fears of eternal damnation by choosing the wrong > OS. The desire to be outraged appears to be stronger than the desire to > educate oneself. >=20 > When this is the way someone starts a "discussion" about wanting to use a > new OS, I tend to believe there is no genuine interest in using the OS in > question. >=20 > --=20 > Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] "abrasive" -- maybe. But this was a most enjoyable read. I don't suppose our Christian friend opposes hot cross buns or Christmas trees. Then again, some Christians do. --=20 Sterling (Chip) Camden | sterling@camdensoftware.com | 2048D/3A978E4F http://camdensoftware.com | http://chipstips.com | http://chipsquips= .com --C+ts3FVlLX8+P6JN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (FreeBSD) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMSyT7AAoJEIpckszW26+R9SMH/1UHAv+fpoXuS1VALiQNpiUr BU/jrJJvL7pkip7xM3NbltunpRvsqepWt6dtj++5w+xJjdN/ozq5W7Xqp3lU8wAz tjyPs5EJ/1EcoSZptXmtiYFCiahJm3ET1dQHgPfn2avw0YOvXP1zpv1xHXVRcm2l rCp6IqWXn5FMSM7OISdwx2vUyrNSl0922OIaieW/Eq2NKgNB9NGTqK5jEIqKpdj9 29e/JKpB8E47RZkfnS1gWTFO2ihbQ63vfT1EmrOTTnULG0HOWk9yuPyIL+DVcp3D 88vbfGHHxBJ7u1QO63YukwHWOVeyvTEtV6w1MRWzxC2b2VDHXxD2OsTBWx3zApQ= =w+tE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --C+ts3FVlLX8+P6JN--