Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 15:51:54 +0000 From: Glen Barber <gjb@FreeBSD.org> To: Adrian Chadd <adrian@freebsd.org> Cc: Jordan Hubbard <jordan.hubbard@gmail.com>, Tim Kientzle <tim@kientzle.com>, freebsd-arm <freebsd-arm@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: RPi2 support... Message-ID: <20150510155154.GA55011@hub.FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <CAJ-Vmok4aKcaunziqbespJENZ5Lf970eBCJYdQF16PQyMj%2B6vQ@mail.gmail.com> References: <0FD2F2B4EF6E490B9DB6CEF1119ECB70@ad.peach.ne.jp> <2DD4D1CE-E05B-44D7-B396-92BB4CD1D98D@kientzle.com> <B018348D-F24D-4E3C-8B8A-CE55890BC5A4@mail.turbofuzz.com> <CAJ-VmonnCMcKB0zEL=rOvhMnE4f24agV8EsZ6LHPtkhXhoQzNg@mail.gmail.com> <20150510054019.GW94075@hub.FreeBSD.org> <CAJ-Vmok4aKcaunziqbespJENZ5Lf970eBCJYdQF16PQyMj%2B6vQ@mail.gmail.com>
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--pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 12:03:54AM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 9 May 2015 at 22:40, Glen Barber <gjb@freebsd.org> wrote: > > On Sat, May 09, 2015 at 10:24:34PM -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: > >> gjb didn't like how development wasn't freebsd-releng-friendly (but > >> really, which upstream vendor project is in all honesty) so he's > >> rolled a replacement that's just landed in head. Time will tell which > >> will work out better. > >> > > > > My recent commit is not about "being better than Crochet", it is about > > providing an in-tree build method (for RE purposes) that can be > > reproduced. For people that do not need to do pristine-environment, > > reproducible builds, I encourage the use of Crochet. > > > >> Me, I'm completely ignoring /all of that/ because I'm fed up with > >> building things as root and having to do loopback mounts to build > >> things and loopback devices to create filesystems. My mips stuff does > >> everything 100% as a user, and it's actually really damned pleasant. > >> I'd love to see FreeBSD move to that model but I have a feeling it'll > >> be fighting against lazy developers who are used to having root > >> everywhere. > >> > > > > I personally fail to see the reasoning behind this, but I'm looking at > > things from an entirely different perspective, I suppose. While it's > > great that your tools provide a mechanism to produce a build as > > non-root, FreeBSD releases are built as the root user. >=20 > Hi, >=20 > The reasoning is that there are more outputs of FreeBSD than just > "make iso and snapshots for ftp.freebsd.org", and having things not > require root simplifies a lot of system administration requirements. >=20 > I have to currently jump through hoops via various FreeBSD-derived > build things in order to tidy up when things go wrong because people > use all the root features they can - zfs mounts, loopback mounts, > loopback devices, etc - and it's just plain silly. Almost none of it > is required. >=20 > It's also nice to be reasonably sure you're not going to have some > badly behaving piece of Makefile decide to scribble over the running > system rather than the destination directory - so you use jails, but > then you have to ensure they're tidied up as well. >=20 > There's also the desire to build freebsd under non-FreeBSD, and having > a build process that doesn't require root helps constrain things so > you don't rely on FreeBSD-isms when there's perfectly good userland > substitutes. >=20 Thank you for the details, this clarifies things more for me. > It's okay, we can rant about this in person one day. :) >=20 Yep, absolutely. Glen --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVT36aAAoJEAMUWKVHj+KTZHwP/2BzjxyBqVyDhPVabUHPBBcc cu/OINOCTk7jdInxLWhessJBwS19NyOTFhGTvsju1hFGFBegXVUrT3N+AF6NSy1+ lUnDd6YcPSJ7KE0MEW1eoDbqqbAdy5fRKOrT0UCzAUlXCX2A4GUNfIJNzFJ7bOsZ rKGlLNvBQ1kdqeBnz4oWjUgRU7ydzXXVrDUnQfbnhOUBdOq97br4mEY6Aj/GjbnZ bsgbLA2Wg668vD9dYVRcBHXMCmTTKfMMORK7NWoOcBVh2szDQ3+03ibJR6yOkwS0 MJlKDPwd/kHsU/aBLrqHRxad4NuUdwcIi7nNkwPfemfvhlFHH7TvWdZJTY74sX9m Ruym6yoGdAIoVJMgEZ7jlzyk0M/7lmBqhabRB8+k+jC3+ea92oDzE/n7fmVW7ihY u5xZ2Xfcr/M3z/riIyi0ExiB1BwtW9h5MEdoEmdVGymfOC/djKvIr+Xu/4VRNXeA DkTiboe7WskWK71hp0sAoB/Hzz+bZtW5seJIqlWc4wjKby1UOLA7mqq+h7H6agfE yUZCucnglfBE5QM4qhDs8nGn266F7GPWD5Gqu6Wlrg1R5VhPI3+h9qKpIjMiWwH6 ycQRXTTihAVuC2GwU8YZOATaOyQ9puvVyZpHOmF0uxzbyKkE47hfJBcic9/kxnns iTIhOfpFcfwRJmoQXCwP =zz4W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt--
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