From nobody Mon Oct 31 01:30:09 2022 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4N0wQ50jcQz4g9P8 for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 01:23:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@risebroadband.net) Received: from mail40c28.carrierzone.com (mail40c28.carrierzone.com [66.175.52.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4N0wQ30p07z3PvH for ; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 01:23:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from emailrob@risebroadband.net) X-Authenticated-User: emailrob@risebroadband.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=carrierzone.com; s=mailmia; t=1667179383; bh=6mikpJOz3uRvlHiM/Pk5WCWSHb/mTBs07Xo82jZzz3A=; h=Reply-To:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=MZ/CMEXfSaTao/95Hk/TN3/oBsgGhXIZQGdey2G9LygspXn1LDmWo4PvmsmwwN+SM Ka5qIUQ4OwkofR6jYWF3b1NVWhoI/Gr5WqHAWx8XFoTPEeAptyvODfGd3HF6gaRPmO ySI/bpGUsncKLooYOrBAkMpxPNGxN/FfrsEs47v8= Feedback-ID:emailrob@risebr Received: from catherine.ntrprnr.com (cust-66-114-191-36.wireless.t6b.com [66.114.191.36] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by mail40c28.carrierzone.com (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id 29V1N1kF044458; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 01:23:02 +0000 Reply-To: emailrob@emailrob.com Subject: Re: my isp has trouble with its own dhcp assignment To: questions@freebsd.org References: <184d5515-80af-50b3-593e-6bc379b441df@risebroadband.net> <64f6a7dd-5c99-1c07-8b4f-27a3f2ecc9af@holgerdanske.com> From: spellberg_robert Message-ID: Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2022 01:30:09 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.2 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <64f6a7dd-5c99-1c07-8b4f-27a3f2ecc9af@holgerdanske.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A702F26.635F2377.0028,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-VADE-SPAMSTATE: clean X-VADE-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-VADE-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvgedruddugdefvdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfjqffuvffqrffktedpqfgfvfdpgffpggdqvedvkeenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedtudenucenucfjughrpehruffvfhfhkffffgggjggtgfesthekredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepshhpvghllhgsvghrghgprhhosggvrhhtuceovghmrghilhhrohgssehrihhsvggsrhhorggusggrnhgurdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpefhffehhedufeetfedvhfehvdefteehieefgefgueejjeeghfettedvudehveduvdenucffohhmrghinheprhhishgvsghrohgruggsrghnugdrtghomhdphhholhhgvghruggrnhhskhgvrdgtohhmpdhnthhrphhrnhhrrdgtohhmpdhsthgrrhhtvggthhdrtghomhdpmhiflhdrihhonecukfhppeeiiedruddugedrudeluddrfeeinecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehinhgvthepieeirdduudegrdduledurdefiedphhgvlhhopegtrghthhgvrhhinhgvrdhnthhrphhrnhhrrdgtohhmpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepvghmrghilhhrohgssehrihhsvggsrhhorggusggrnhgurdhnvghtpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedvpdhrtghpthhtohepvghmrghilhhrohgssegvmhgrihhlrhhosgdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopehquhgvshhtihhonhhssehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhg X-Origin-Country: US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4N0wQ30p07z3PvH X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=carrierzone.com header.s=mailmia header.b="MZ/CMEXf"; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of emailrob@risebroadband.net designates 66.175.52.146 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emailrob@risebroadband.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:66.175.52.128/26]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[carrierzone.com:s=mailmia]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:30447, ipnet:66.175.0.0/18, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[carrierzone.com:+]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[emailrob@emailrob.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[risebroadband.net]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[carrierzone.com:dkim] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N 22_oct_30_sun 25.23.utc [ to other readers : there is a question for you at the bottom of this post . ] greetings , david --- sorry for the delay ; my weeks are busy ones . On 10/21/22 4:16 AM, David Christensen wrote: > On 10/20/22 15:17, spellberg_robert wrote:> On 10/18/22 12:47 AM, David > Christensen wrote: >>    when i reply to the list , should i "cc" to the poster , also ? > > I CC the OP only if the OP requests it. > > understood . >>> Regarding getting text file contents into an e-mail message using a >>> graphical workstation, one method is to open the file in Mousepad, >>> Notepad, etc., select the desired text, copy the selected text to the >>> clipboard, switch to the Thunderbird message composition window, and >>> paste the clipboard contents. >>> >> >>    ... the above generated an idea . >> >> i do not have the named "pad"s ; >>    but , i tried the following and it worked . >> >> open the text_file in a firefox "new_tab" . >> select from the ul_corner to the lr_corner . >> >> position the cursor in the thunderbird composition_window . >> > > > I have tried running FreeBSD desktops several times over the years.  It > was a lot of work and the experience was disappointing.  As much as I > would like a FreeBSD desktop, Debian with Xfce is easier to install and > more Xfce features are supported. > > i thank you for volunteering the info , how_ever , i am one of those people who despise point_and_click ; in my case , this is w/ a passion which i can_not even begin to describe . [ are those squiggles intended to be intuitively_obvious ? ] in my experience , xterm/xclock are the only p_&_c which work well . >>> 1.  What is the location of your Internet service point? >>> >> >> geographically , we are in rural mc_henry county , illinois , usa , > > > Okay. > > >>> 2.  Who is your ISP?  Please provide a URL. >>> >> >> https://www.risebroadband.com > > > Okay. > > >>> 3.  What Internet service plan do you have?  Please provide a URL. >>> >> >> https://www.risebroadband,com/residential > > > Okay. > > >>> 4.  What is the make and model of the access device provided by the >>> ISP?   Please provide a URL. >>> >> >> if you mean the roof_top antenna , then i do not know . > > > It would be good for you to know the make and model of your antenna.  I > suspect it functions as a modem. > > i suspect the same . perhaps , the isp's customer_service phone_clerks have_been trained to answer such a highly_technical question ; we shall see . >>    if you mean the "thingy" , which the isp calls a "router" , >>    then we do not have one . >> the gateway box is directly connected to the roof_top antenna , >>    with rj45 and poe . >> the gateway does two things , packet_filtering and nat . > > > While building your own gateway from scratch using a general-purpose OS > is a useful exercise, it is an ISP's worst nightmare.  If they attempt > to support you, they will struggle.  Most ISP's will simply refuse to > support anything except their own equipment. > > a priori , let me be clear ; i do --not-- believe that you meant that which is suggested by your choice of words . building these gateways is --not-- an "exercise" . i have been doing things this way since my "dial_up" days . they have worked well , always , until --this-- effort . also , you are not aware [ thus , blame_less ] that this isp's idea of "support" is that answers to questions begin with : "first , click on `start'" . i paid for "support" for , may_be , two months . they do not know what to do with technically_proficient people , such as , i suspect , most of the readers of these fbsd lists . > I recommend that you buy or lease a residential gateway from your ISP, > connect it to the antenna, and get it working reliably (with or without > support from your ISP).  Then, connect #5 in a router-behind-router > configuration (e.g. connect #5 to the LAN side of the ISP gateway).  Now > you can play with #5 all you want, and you still have a working Internet > connection the whole time.  This is what I do. > > this will not work . all this does is to shift the failure from my box to theirs . this isp can [ and does ] take --days-- to fix a "tower_problem" , as they call it ; presumably , this affects --many-- customers . when [ not "if" ] their device fails , then i am "down" for an in_determinate time , while i wait for some "tech" , in a van , to drive east , from the big city [ rockford ] , across two county lines , to handle "tickets" , in this area . in general , i need to be "up" 24/7 . i suspect that a "static ip_address" will solve this dhcp problem ; but , i do not know [ i was going to inquire , today ; but , of course , they are closed on sundays ] . i suspect that , if it is the solution , then it will be less expensive than multiple devices from the isp . again , i believe that you meant well ; but , this is not "play" . i presume that "#5" refers to natalie/natasha_11.3 . please note_that : during this past week , natalie/natasha was put back on its 12.3 config . it has the same "rc.conf" over_rides , except for the console entries [ "kbd" , "font" , "cursor" , et_c . , remain defaulted ] . >>> 5.  You seem to be discussing several computers -- a gateway >>> computer, a backup gateway computer, and several clients (presumably, >>> one is a graphical workstation with Thunderbird).  Please clarify how >>> many computers you have and their roles. > >> in general , there are many machines , on 192.168.100.0/24 , >>    but , for now , only three are involved with the out_side world . >> these are : >> >>    natasha    192.168.100.200        i386     8.1 >>    catherine    192.168.100.143        amd64    11.4 >>    113        192.168.100.113        amd64    11.3 >> >>    natalie    192.168.100.201        amd64    11.3    as user >>    natasha    192.168.100.200        amd64    11.3    as gateway > >>> 6.  Please pick one computer and let us work on that one.  When that >>> is fixed, pick another computer and start a new thread. >>> >> >> agreed . > > > Let's work on #5. > > as above , natalie/natasha_11.3 is , now , 12.3 . >>> 7.  What is the make and model of the computer?  Which CPU?  How much >>> memory?  What storage devices?  Please provide URL(s). >>> >> >> i build my own mid_tower boxen [ see below ] . >> >> the user boxen are i3/5/7 "skylake" , 64_GB , >>    1/2/4_TB seagate "constellation_es.3" . > >> the new gateways are 16_GB , same seagate . > > > Okay. > > >>> 8.  Which FreeBSD installer did you use?  What questions were you >>> asked and how did you answer them? >>> >> >> the one which is included >>    with the applicable amd64/dvd or i386/cd image_file . >> >> uhhh , ... , all of them and honestly >>    [ to the best of my under_standing ] . >> >> broadly_speaking , i install every_thing , including the ports_tree . >> hard_drives are extensively partitioned , to make full back_ups faster . > >> i want to be helpful , here ; >>    if the above is in_sufficient , then please advise . > > > I keep a plain text administrator log file for every computer.  I put > this file plus any system configuration files I create or modify into a > networked version control system (CVS).  I recommend that you do the same. > > > Here is my log entry for a recent FreeBSD install.  I recommend that you > take notes like this whenever you install; they are invaluable for later > troubleshooting: > > February 11, 2022 > > 1.  Use DQ67SW.  Insert FreeBSD-12.3-RELEASE-amd64 USB flash drive into >     USB 2.0 port adjacent to FireWire port.  Insert Intel 520 Series >     SSD 60 GB into upper rack.  Disconnect all other drive SATA cables >     except for optical drive.  Boot FreeBSD installer: > >         FreeBSD - Welcome to FreeBSD    Boot Multi user >         FreeBSD Installer - Welcome     Install >         Keymap Selection                Continue with default keymap >         Set Hostname                    f4.tracy.holgerdanske.com >         Distribution Selection          >         Partitioning                    Auto (ZFS) >             Pool Type/Disks             stripe: 1 disk >                                         ada0 INTEL SSDSC2CW060A3 >             Pool Name                   f4_zroot >             Force 4K Sectors            YES >             Encrypt Disks               YES >             Partition Scheme            MBR (BIOS) >             Swap Size                   2g >             Mirror Swap                 YES >             Encrypt Swap                YES >             >>> Install                 Proceed with installation >         ZFS Configuration >             Last Chance!                YES >             Enter a strong passphrase   ******** >             Re-enter password           ******** >         Root - New Password             ******** >         Retype New Password             ******** >         Network Configuration           em0 >         Configure IPv4                  Yes >         Use DHCP                        Yes >         Configure IPv6                  No >         Search                          tracy.holgerdanske.com >         IPv4 DNS #1                     192.168.5.1 >         IPv4 DNS #2                     208.67.222.222 >         CMOS clock set to UTC           Yes >         Time Zone >             Region                      America -- North and South >             Country or region           United States of America >             Zone                        Pacific >         Time & Date - month, year, day  >         Time & Data - time              >         Services to start at boot       sshd, ntpdate, ntpd, powerd >         System hardening options        >         Add users                       No >         Final configuration             Exit >         Open shell                      No >         Complete                        Reboot > >     Power down during POST. > >     Remove installation media. > > oddly enough , this is what i do [ every question , every answer ] , except that i do this in pencil on two sheete of letter_size paper . i was not about to type all of that in , unless you asked for some_thing , specifically . how did you generate this data ? is the installer creating this , as a file , and not telling me ? for me , a new box takes two days to create [ assemble parts , install os , edit config_files , et_c . ] . any_thing which accelerates that process , ... . >>> 9.  Please run the following commands and post your complete console >>> session -- prompt, commands entered, output printed: >>> >>> # freebsd-version ; uname -a > >>> # cat /etc/rc.conf > >> powerd_enable="YES"            # common >> hostname="natasha.ntrprnr.com" >> ipfilter_enable="YES" >> ipnat_enable="YES" >> ipmon_enable="YES" >> ifconfig_em0="DHCP" >> ipv4_addrs_re0="192.168.100.200/24" >> sshd_enable="YES"            # common >> ftpd_enable="YES"            # common >> gateway_enable="YES" >> keymap="us"                # common >> keyrate="fast"                # common >> cursor="blink"                # common >> font8x16="iso-8x16.fnt"            # common >> font8x14="iso-8x14.fnt"            # common >> font8x8="iso-8x8.fnt"            # common >> blanktime="NO"                # common >> moused_enable="YES"            # common >> dumpdev="AUTO"                # common > > > Okay. > > >>> 10. If the computer is graphical, which window manager or desktop >>> environment are you using? > >>> 11. Are you using ports or packages?  What ports and/or packages have >>> you installed? > >> packages . > >> xorg            7.7_3        not_used ; never_configured >> firefox            67.0.2_2,1    not_used >> thunderbird        60.7.1        not_used >> m4            1.4.18_1,1    not_used > > > Okay. > > >> natalie/natasha 11.3 has two rc.conf files : >>     all development is done on natalie ; then , >>     change one sym_link , power_down , swap cables , boot as natasha ; >>     same name , same 1918_address , make dhcp request . >> when done testing , >>     change the sym_link , power_down , swap cables , boot as natalie . >> the development process is fairly simple and >>     this procedure mimics the expected future routine operation . >> >> note_that : when the 11.3 box is natasha , >>     then natasha 8.1 remains booted , >>     but , its network cables [ .200 , dhcp ] are plugged into 11.3 ; >>     also , the natalie cable [ .201 ] is detached and un_connected . > > > I install 2.5" SATA mobile racks in my machines and have a stack of > small 2.5" SATA SSD's, with one OS instance per SSD.  This makes it easy > to mix and match: > > https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/hsb220sat25b > > https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/s25slotr > > a separate question : do you find "startech" plug_in cards to be reliable ? > The fact that the MAC address remains constant when I boot one computer > with several different OS disks can confuse DHCP and DNS caching. i do not see these as issues . if the entries are in_valid , then , replace them . only natalie runs unbound or bind ; only natasha runs dhclient . besides , there is only one os , on the hd . > Therefore, I try to limit myself to one computer when experimenting with > OS's and I use IPv4 addresses rather than host names when experiementing. > > again , choice of words [ i am not angry ] ; this is not an experiment . there has been , only , one box , natalie/natasha ; once it works , then it will be cloned twice . if i was in_sufficiently clear , then , i apologize . >> --how_ever-- , when the user_machines are going through the 11.3 box , > > > To get #5 working as a gateway, I recommend that you dedicate the > machine to that purpose already done ; from the beginning . and do a fresh install of > FreeBSD-12.3-RELEASE-amd64. created in 22_may ; re_installed during this past week , for an un_related reason .   Unfortunately, the FreeBSD installer UI > does not have an option to limit the amount of disk space used -- it > uses the whole disk.  Get a small SSD, USB flash drive, or SDHC card > ("16 GB" devices are more than adequate).  Keep meticulous notes. always do .   Use a > version control system for your notes and any system configuration files > you touch. no need for this . many years ago , i created that which i call a "shadow" tree . this tree replicates the entire directory_tree ; but , only for directories which have config_files . an example : in /etc : rc.conf -> ../+shadow/etc/d.rc^^^^____rc__dot_conf/l.active in /+shadow/etc/d.rc^^^^____rc__dot_conf l.active -> d^^^__30w11____x86_64__f_12_3__natasha^^^^^____rc__dot_conf____03 t_bird's --stupid-- 72_column wrap_around reared its ugly head , here . to revise , copy d*03 to a like_named e*04 ; edit e*04 ; change the sym_link . the carets fill unused chars in a fixed_width field . by this means , --all-- of --my-- config_files are in --one-- place , /+shadow [ if i do not change some_thing , then it does not get moved ] . by extension , there exists a "+shadow" directory at the top of every partition mount_point , where necessary [ e . g . , /var , because of named ] . last , i create short shell variables for each location ; typing "set" helps to remind me of these . also , some directories can be many levels deep .   Use dd(1) to take raw binary images of the disk as you go, > so that you can easily revert changes. > > i suppose ; but , changing a sym_link strikes me as being easier and faster , especially w/ command_line up_arrow "history" capability . find a line which is substantially similar and edit a few chars ; done . > I recommend these books: > > https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os#af3e > > https://mwl.io/nonfiction/networking#n4sa > > > David > at this point , i come to why i stared at your post , for over two hours , this morning , before i commenced to writing . the above is interesting and/or useful and there --are-- some ideas which will be added to my "if i ever find the time , then it would be nice if" list . i have observed that you never address that which i believe to be my most important observation . on natasha_11.3 , when i type the "ifconfig add" command , using the 69. address which was assigned to natasha_8.1 , then natasha_11.3 works beautifully . when i type the "ifconfig delete" command , then natasha_11.3 reverts to working poorly , because it has , only , the 172. address . i am not the least bit convinced that this is not an important observation . this is why i am prepared to spend some money [ in --this-- economy , yet ] , on a so_called "static address" , for a_while , any_way , just to see if it works . if so , then i have eliminated the dhcp concept , entirely . please do not get me wrong ; i appreciate the time which you have taken . the nature of your questions led me to believe that you were going in a certain direction ; but , your response to my answers has gone else_where . thus , i am confused , some_what . would you care to add any_thing further to this or to any_thing else ? to other readers : would any_one care to comment on my "ifconfig" observation [ about 30 lines above ] or on any_thing else , in this thread ? i have difficulty imagining that the dhcp designers have failed to consider the possibility of replacing failed hardware w/ backup hardware , which backup hardware is identically configured . tia rob