From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Mon Dec 4 00:23:33 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25808E6D783 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 00:23:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C5A6FE9A for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 00:23:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id F2109E6D782; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 00:23:32 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19D8E6D781 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 00:23:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from smtp-out-so.shaw.ca (smtp-out-so.shaw.ca [64.59.136.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF42F6FE99 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 00:23:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@komquats.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([96.50.22.10]) by shaw.ca with SMTP id LeXfejBjsss4TLeXgejIdh; Sun, 03 Dec 2017 17:23:30 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=JuuBlIwC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:117 a=jvE2nwUzI0ECrNeyr98KWA==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ocR9PWop10UA:10 a=JzwRw_2MAAAA:8 a=BWvPGDcYAAAA:8 a=iKhvJSA4AAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=YJl4vTgTWAG8sGD552EA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=_bBvcJC8wCc67rcU61zu:22 a=pxhY87DP9d2VeQe4joPk:22 a=odh9cflL3HIXMm4fY7Wr:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 181681F16; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 16:23:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vB40NQ57037539; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 16:23:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vB40NQkJ037536; Sun, 3 Dec 2017 16:23:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201712040023.vB40NQkJ037536@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: Bruce Evans cc: Warner Losh , Cy Schubert , Hans Petter Selasky , Eitan Adler , "Rodney W. Grimes" , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Deprecating / Removing floppy drive support In-Reply-To: Message from Bruce Evans of "Mon, 04 Dec 2017 10:40:54 +1100." <20171204092457.I961@besplex.bde.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2017 16:23:26 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfGZfBMnBYLtjyfPQpAdf9sakU/tYmFz60vtQzIfWuuWyLFC2Mq8Ws8S7tpzJWcerU0swzdfX+viVo17+6nUWbYwh1I8KSIQoBJHJixqniSjDgLUgZpHz mkNMYH+ROaLZcQFF0K9ksuMno69oc77DdFjO7OgMLS9tR1gtGnn08cqWFF3702cF+PBPYVLtwxBvJ/NuUUBG6lG1BxBhDPGXM2OVj3PsB7YJ4nN9a7RbJ3pP qcbgpXgUzKcq4ea5aPbZsDSlgICz7jTIX88mEPG6aIH7JLYB3uvkgTdt9Pcf7xwhTe7/DfbvJaBtfidv12R5Dar3OA0xhcj8ozXdXzY91pg= X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 00:23:33 -0000 In message <20171204092457.I961@besplex.bde.org>, Bruce Evans writes: > On Sun, 3 Dec 2017, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 1:05 PM, Cy Schubert > > wrote: > > > >> In message <201712031655.vB3GtIME041023@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net>, "Rodney > >> W. > >> Gri > >> mes" writes: > > The inner quoting is more broken than usual (split in the middle of > rgrimes' name). > > >>> **RANT ON** > >>> > >>> Data point: OpenBSD still supports install from floppies.. so > >>> my guess is that OpenBSD has been able to keep this code running, > >>> it is a "Sad State of Affairs" that FreeBSD with 300+ developers > >>> can not manage the same. As Eitan pointed out, its only a 1000 > >>> lines so of code. Really now, we can manage to keep the mass > >>> of clang and zfs running, but we can not keep a 1000 line fdc.c > >>> running? > > Actually 5000+ lines of code: at least: > - 2835 lines in dev/fdc > - 195 lines in sys/fdcio.h > - 335 lines in man4/fdc.4 > - 2578 lines in fdcontrol, fdformat, fdread and fdwrite > > > The floppy driver itself is fine. It relies, however, on ISADMA working. It > > got broken and nobody noticed. Also, FreeBSD has SMP while OpenBSD does > > not, so that's been a much larger code velocity over all. > > > > Reading works OK. It's writing that fails. So this datapoint is consistent > > with my experience. There's other issues that need to be fixed apart from > > ISADMA, but those are minor in comparison. > > ISADMA worked for writing by fdformat and cp of 1 floppy under -current here. > I used a UP i386 system with 1GB. If the bug only affects SMP, and64 or > large memory, then it is easy to work around by not using these. Memory > above 4GB is especially easy to avoid using a boot option. The following on a my amd64 testbed while writing. bob# dmesg g_vfs_done():fd0[READ(offset=184320, length=512)]error = 5 bob# uname -a FreeBSD bob 12.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT #10 r326456M: Sat Dec 2 00:54:10 PST 2017 root@bob:/export/obj/opt/src/svn-current/amd64.amd64/s ys/BREAK amd64 bob# sysctl hw.realmem hw.realmem: 5368709120 bob# You are right Bruce. Using the same machine but with FreeBSD-12 i386 it works perfectly. bob# uname -a FreeBSD bob 12.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT #8 r326456M: Sat Dec 2 07:42:12 PST 2017 root@bob:/export/obj/opt/src/svn-current/i386.i386/sys /BREAK i386 bob# I think the todo here is either a) fix fdc(4) to work on amd64 or b) remove fdc(4) from GENERIC on amd64. > > >> I've spent some time thinking about this while cleaning up the yard of old > >> leaves today. All three of my machines downstairs still have fdc(4) > >> controllers and take a poke at it. > >> > >> USB floppy does also work. The ufdformat USB floppy format (not yet > >> committed, thank you bms@) also works in 12 (it didn't in 7 due to borked > >> USB in 7). I've yet to decide whether to commit it as is or merge it into > >> the existing fdformat. > > > > I'd commit it as is (ufdformat). It's functionality is quite a bit > > different because the CDBs are much less expressive than the full NEC 765 > > chip supports (which is itself a subset of what you can do on a floppy, but > > I digress). > > So usb floppy drives can't even duplicate fdformat's functionality? > There is also hard to replace functionality in other utilites. Not at the moment but I plan on committing a USB version of fdformat when it passes review. It works perfectly using a TEAC FD-05PUW 3000. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.