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Date:      Thu, 17 Sep 2020 18:23:19 +0100
From:      Jessica Clarke <jrtc27@freebsd.org>
To:        rgrimes@freebsd.org
Cc:        Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Alex Richardson <arichardson@freebsd.org>, src-committers <src-committers@freebsd.org>, svn-src-all <svn-src-all@freebsd.org>, svn-src-head <svn-src-head@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r365836 - head/share/mk
Message-ID:  <C1895D1E-B3FF-4CE0-8CF1-D8151FEA0D59@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <202009171705.08HH5CtE014644@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
References:  <202009171705.08HH5CtE014644@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>

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> On 17 Sep 2020, at 18:05, Rodney W. Grimes <freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> =
wrote:
>=20
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 9:39 AM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen@sdaoden.eu> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>> Alex Richardson wrote in
>>> <202009171507.08HF7Qns080555@repo.freebsd.org>:
>>> |Author: arichardson
>>> |Date: Thu Sep 17 15:07:25 2020
>>> |New Revision: 365836
>>> |URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/365836
>>> |
>>> |Log:
>>> |  Stop using lorder and ranlib when building libraries
>>> |
>>> |  Use of ranlib or lorder is no longer necessary with current =
linkers
>>> |  (probably anything newer than ~1990) and ar's ability to create =
an
>>> object
>>> |  index and symbol table in the archive.
>>> |  Currently the build system uses lorder+tsort to sort the .o files =
in
>>> |  dependency order so that a single-pass linker can use them. =
However,
>>> |  we can use the -s flag to ar to add an index to the .a file which =
makes
>>> |  lorder unnecessary.
>>> |  Running ar -s is equivalent to running ranlib afterwards, so we =
can
>>> also
>>> |  skip the ranlib invocation.
>>>=20
>>> That ranlib thing yes (for long indeed), but i have vague memories
>>> that the tsort/lorder ordering was also meant to keep the things
>>> which heavily interdepend nearby each other.  (Luckily Linux
>>> always had at least tsort available.)
>>> This no longer matters for all the platforms FreeBSD supports?
>>>=20
>>=20
>> tsort has no notion of how dependent the modules are, just an order =
that
>> allows a single pass through the .a file (otherwise you'd need to =
list the
>> .a file multiple times on the command line absent ranlib). That's the
>> original purpose of tsort. tsort, lsort, and ranlib all arrived in =
7th
>> edition unix on a PDP-11, where size was more important than =
proximity to
>> locations (modulo overlays, which this doesn't affect at all).
>>=20
>> There were some issues of long vs short jumps on earlier =
architectures that
>> this helped (since you could only jump 16MB, for example). However, =
there
>> were workarounds for this issue on those platforms too. And if you =
have a
>> program that this does make a difference, then you can still use
>> tsort/lorder. They are still in the system.
>>=20
>> I doubt you could measure a difference here today. I doubt, honestly, =
that
>> anybody will notice at all.
>=20
> The x86 archicture has relative jmps of differning lengths, even in =
long mode
> there is support for rel8 and rel32.

That's irrelevant though for several reasons:

1. The compiler has already decided on what jump instructions to use =
based on
   the requested code model (unless you're on RISC-V and using GNU bfd =
ld as
   that supports linker relaxations that actually delete instruction =
bytes).

2. The linker is still free to reorder input sections however it likes, =
it
   doesn't have to follow the order of the input files (and the files =
within
   any archive).

3. If you care about those kinds of optimisations you should use =
link-time
   optimisation which will likely do far more useful things than just =
optimise
   branches, but again isn't constrained by the order of the input =
files, it
   can lay out the code exactly how it wants.

Not to mention that this is just a topological sort, not a clustering =
sort.

Jess




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