From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Wed Sep 23 00:55:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 830A43E702D for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2020 00:55:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bx08K3sgkz40XP for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2020 00:55:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id n133so21184325qkn.11 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 17:55:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hLyYZKfCUBg5Bpb8nKcEfs5pi+Y7kkeQ//4RfSk2c1Q=; b=LRL6owNjyWHbT57WG9FHOgvNLgqefYLsgXy0Aj7y0rF9D6T6WQNC8IqO82g9ywNsPK 0I+VGZONVBuqxUDeIPHbdji4I3R5UbeNjYAYnmu9xW41h+KbYnr0tazDdKw0rF0m1j58 JqvFuX5WJRsf3co8+J0JR8LqINe9Lx++H3ZYpSgZtBdH1AgrfHHj18HnwozNQkKD8J2P 2IGb2JdBWpQsq8E6WBh+MSm8h4b96NNsfh0t0MMA3ikOwNOki6HDHPIMRsrgpTco6dVl A/TcAKI5eoXlC6alUZkyeqzEETOw6ZCa/pwAVF0Y1wys4FHYSNr3cpS/vhjKQfMHgKC1 8GyA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hLyYZKfCUBg5Bpb8nKcEfs5pi+Y7kkeQ//4RfSk2c1Q=; b=imkFLHBQ0n9XjYS02OhgMTeZWErXjUWjUuMPiLbaoBYUDqZY67RtkNo6lx0AaoKoko rNkL8hHQrHqHQgjiaPCdC2jzfgBjl1891c0AfVbzsUvJw7kFXixFJgBGNT3v8vfpR0HL h6gwMaE6jnNtSJFi7cTQskBICFoeVcO18TM1KL9vj4NKHKbnV0nJSdSjh4tUDX1xEQGw 3/+ReZm7Rf8cGJbCa6Zq3m9E471udomhIOHuOTAO2m8i1ejT8SHxzpUF8VPVJXvo67rp rtnNmM/xZfBzqPkZu69mBx/f29ls/zMRAxmRIxLD4FLfcIPlV3mKpm2CNNaaUzAuck2L 3XJQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531DgPoROx7BWfsMJfFWOdvqbmcpisOFqSe7xEOHNteLwk5XT5d1 iaMwVvW2yw/GZ6I5z2kVGRdcL8zpbdKGkjFz6YhlXw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJynGvTnSXARrxMr7phAylsZvc58ROmNwvj57lq2g+hLGZ7UAtCRuit7/pJnCMeA7tsPBu2kRlqvQ/kgN/r2yio= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:2006:: with SMTP id c6mr7167310qka.240.1600822512422; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 17:55:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009112049.08BKnavL032212@repo.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 18:55:01 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r365643 - head/bin/cp To: Kyle Evans Cc: Ian Lepore , Alan Somers , Mateusz Guzik , src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bx08K3sgkz40XP X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=LRL6owNj; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::729) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.65 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.88)[-0.879]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.949]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[svn-src-all@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.18)[0.177]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::729:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[svn-src-all]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[freebsd.org,gmail.com] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 00:55:14 -0000 On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:17 PM Kyle Evans wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 17:02 Warner Losh wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 3:55 PM Kyle Evans wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 4:53 PM Ian Lepore wrote: >>> > >>> > On Tue, 2020-09-22 at 15:50 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >>> > > I think it's a great leap sideways, but I've done cp /dev/null foo to >>> > > clear >>> > > it out for 35 years now... It's why it feels like a workaround. >>> > > >>> > > Though it is a legit optimization, no matter the feelings. As for >>> > > clearer, >>> > > I'm less sure since then I have to remember what the : operator does. >>> > > >>> > > Warner >>> > > >>> > >>> > For me, :> is idiomatic (but ugly). >>> > >>> > On the other hand, the cp /dev/null had a nice dogfooding aspect to >>> > it... when we broke cp by accident, its use in the build system was the >>> > first alarm to go off. >>> > >>> > --Ian >>> > >>> >>> To be honest, this is a case that really should be covered by >>> regression tests somewhere. >>> >> >> It should (but isn't yet). >> >> Ian is right for old-school FreeBSD thinking. In that thinking the build >> system should use an eclectic mix of tools to act as a fire-wall against >> accidental breakage. >> >> Complete, effective, test suites give much better coverage... if they are >> run... >> >> So until we run tests frequently, with loud regression squawking that's >> as effective as build breakage, I tend to fall in the 'all of the above' >> camp until that's in place... :) >> >> Warner >> >> P.S. though not, if I suppose, if it means that we're slowing down the >> regression coverage uptake... >> > > -- > > The test build was fine, please confirm if I can commit it or if someone > else would like to write the UPDATING notice or start bootstrapping cp on > systems that were affected. I'm not comfortable with not taking any path at > all here, but this is a lot of friction for a small mechanical change to > ease the pain. > Sorry if I wasn't clear: I'm not objecting to the quick mechanical change so much as complaining that I wish we had better test coverage. Don't let that stop you from doing what's right (or I can if you'd like). Warner