From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Dec 19 15:02:12 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4639B1337F94 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:02:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x833.google.com (mail-qt1-x833.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::833]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51D4884431 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:02:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x833.google.com with SMTP id v11so22554047qtc.2 for ; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 07:02:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0kuUNjm8Mf7N99tLqlZlus8pICK9ud5p4HjPEyjv8Ds=; b=KiDLS97t82EUD3//6L96yLQLVLeO7Kjfl4ZDXhmRSwrnvq7z6dY6vp8KLDibWfD03L x2SDHlz1zYJp8m08K3QGaEddg/xfhwSIyzTi/23madlX+QvRLc+y9lgFyQ8K6LJeO983 ilvYtSP8SgrDF/1EpN0Pdm3CxkvooPw9mcCAWdIUYebvjPtUdj+bMSS0ZJQGhvQxPl1b d6iuysWBLa2xprtF4nqRwFoZMQBWJ1tFpw2Y8HfP8Y4xpZ20rYmVudxw4d2ODuAODbjv hDUrpdXYjcHo+HXy2U4ti+QPBFTobSeIIeGBs1vHOYTFq+1B/LPCH29EOK+jgkMTix6I gr3Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0kuUNjm8Mf7N99tLqlZlus8pICK9ud5p4HjPEyjv8Ds=; b=rolmIszTkWyl5DudV1C+VgSKUFm5RUGdpyqXZvjpO2q2gTmdyBi83JeAgNxc2eTK37 o9CsjUUqBMaGpUuR+ZzLQKrTVsKJEP0Th9vpvZNnDYP5DlvKfzA9H13voCJm61tKBic7 X3XXPB/03gn63N5guIhUOyQRtNeuFcyIxPj7OtwtzCNe87r5ILeiTOlvMsPtDQmPuIZM 0AwD9V/A38krEPnYw6KQXWS0fWgU/eESh8uThDlSGHt1rGqTkxQrcpBuRCvRZoEE2Pfn flS1E6zWkw4p3HoAKsuZXWSodkqLMjir2n2RnNkYWLjMgCNiOtIIfeUh9k2GAqXCbNfs eHxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZoXVZfyIeGe+5hz23Tf7nbOI6AnMncLdhlt8EnSbluqd3sHz0M sRzweFQ12tJ5W5Q78dCBLWTet150XiM2QS6yRdQJkQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/Uscb+QifF2zkF2YNce2fQnR4K3VNMnOAJgaHaYXbBEmmp5LWRO575q9VBjccp28auoipQO/RCzOQgxP+mIsUo= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9c89:: with SMTP id i9mr21637565qvf.153.1545231730623; Wed, 19 Dec 2018 07:02:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <397FBAFF-2575-4AE4-B2BC-2DFDA769040A@FreeBSD.org> <7BBA9943-7CA1-4349-9B48-1641BA11FCA3@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <7BBA9943-7CA1-4349-9B48-1641BA11FCA3@FreeBSD.org> From: Warner Losh Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 08:01:56 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: OpenRC on FreeBSD To: Martin Wilke Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" , Joe Maloney , Marcelo Araujo , ken@ixsystems.com, Kris Moore , Warren Block X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 51D4884431 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=KiDLS97t X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.82 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.50)[-0.503,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[9]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[3.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.31)[ip: (-8.32), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-1.74), asn: 15169(-1.39), country: US(-0.08)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2018 15:02:12 -0000 On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 7:57 AM Martin Wilke wrote: > Hi, > > The missing bit was actually the flag for switching the rc=E2=80=99s whic= h have > been resolved. > No. The missing bit is an articulated plan. While that minor sub-issue may be resolved, I see no plan for integration into the tree. Unless the plan is 'commit the review in one big push' which really isn't a viable plan. There are problems with the review (it's too large to be successful, and has issues that need to be discussed in a less massively huge environment). This isn't what the working group's conclusion would be the next steps. The FCP I provided feedback on died. It was a good start on a plan, but was just dropped with my feedback completely ignored. Warner > - Martin > > On 19 Dec 2018, at 10:51 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 7:39 AM Martin Wilke wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I'd like to reopen the discussion for OpenRC on FreeBSD. Basically this >> is the second attempt to get it into FreeBSD. >> >> I've opened a review here with a working patch for CURRENT, >> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D18578 >> >> >> To recap the discussion >> * First attempt of RFC in March of 2018: >> https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2018-March/052358.ht= ml >> * Working group at BSDCan: >> https://wiki.freebsd.org/DevSummit/201806/OpenRC >> >> Here some key points: >> >> OpenRC provides additional features for service management without >> requiring kernel changes or replacing pid 1, unlike launchd and other >> solutions. All rc.d scripts have been converted with a few changes, >> typically changing the shebang and making sure the start function is nam= ed >> start(). Most service scripts are simplified, usually needing only name, >> command, and, if required, depends statements. >> >> History: >> OpenRC started out as an init system by Roy Marples, developed for the >> Gentoo Alt (FreeBSD) kernel branch. It was more widely adopted into Gent= oo >> as baselayout v2, and was then split off as a separate BSD-licensed >> project. It is under active development, portable, and remains BSD licen= sed >> today. >> >> OpenRC and RC: >> Both can coexist and be chosen with a setting in /boot/loader.conf. >> >> OpenRC Features: >> >> Service supervision and service monitoring: any service can be >> supervised. Supervised services that crash are automatically restarted. = The >> rc-status command shows how many times a service has restarted. >> >> Device hotplug support and event-driven service management: the hotplug >> feature allows devd to take actions when devices are connected. For >> example, a USB wifi adapter can create additional network services when >> attached. The net-online service can, for example, detect when a network >> connection is restored, and restart ntp. >> >> Network profiles: using stacked runlevels, different profiles can be >> established for different networking settings. For instance, different >> profiles can be used for wired or wireless networking, or for differing >> wireless networks, as well as dependency caching and parallel startup sp= eed >> up booting. >> >> Interactive mode: >> The boot process can be run interactively for more effective debugging. >> >> OpenRC uses the term =E2=80=9Crunlevels=E2=80=9D to refer to the context= in which a >> script is running. There are only three at present: >> sysinit (the OpenRC system is starting), boot (start base services when >> the computer is booting), and default (normal execution). >> >> OpenRC, by default, provides a =E2=80=9Ccolorized=E2=80=9D text boot, us= ing ANSI color >> sequences. This can be disabled. >> >> Ports: >> As of July 2017, iXsystems has created OpenRC versions of port service >> scripts for the entire ports tree. These scripts coexist with the rc.d >> versions. >> >> License: >> OpenRC is a BSD licensed RC init system written in C. From a user >> perspective, it is very similar to the FreeBSD rc.d init system, making = it >> easy to use and learn. >> >> Tested: OpenRC has been used as the init system for TrueOS since October >> 2016. >> >> Ken Moore has an OpenRC vs RC.d comparison which can be found here: >> http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/openrc/OpenRC_rc.d.pdf < >> http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/openrc/OpenRC_rc.d.pdf> >> I look forward to discuss the features and capabilities of OpenRC. >> > > This is cool technology. > > However, what was missing last time was a written plan that could be > critiqued for fit with the project's needs. The result of the working gro= up > was that this was to be produced, and we'd iterate through it to ease the > landing of openrc in the tree. I think there's wide agreement this is coo= l, > and that we'd like tot have both it and rc.d in the tree for a transition > period. Absent a plan, though, it's not really possible to say 'go do it' > or 'that's insane'. > > So maybe start there? > > Warner > > >