From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Mar 18 01:55:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB5D16A4CE for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:55:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from saturn.criticalmagic.com (saturn.criticalmagic.com [68.213.16.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BD8843D1F for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:55:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richardcoleman@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (titan.criticalmagic.com [68.213.16.23]) by saturn.criticalmagic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16CD3BD10 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 04:55:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <405971FF.7050606@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 04:55:11 -0500 From: Richard Coleman Organization: Critical Magic, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <20040315134745.1eb201f4.manlix@demonized.net> <20040315125121.GC91150@abc.123.org> <20040315135725.3cc70f97.manlix@demonized.net> <20040317110938.GA86023@dragon.nuxi.com> <1079544327.63000.5.camel@scienide.energyhq.es.eu.org> <20040317174326.GA94853@dragon.nuxi.com> In-Reply-To: <20040317174326.GA94853@dragon.nuxi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Pkg-based base system. X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: richardcoleman@mindspring.com List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:55:08 -0000 David O'Brien wrote: > On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 06:25:28PM +0100, Miguel Mendez wrote: > >>On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 12:09, David O'Brien wrote: >> >>>3. Sounds like you want Linux with its RPM's, not BSD. We consciously >>> don't wrap the base system in pkg_add tarballs. We generally LIKE the >>> entire system being a single integrated blob. >> >>Yes and no. Perl was removed from base, wasn't it? Anyone needing perl >>can install install it from ports (read: it's one of the first ports >>most people install). Why can't the same be applied to bind and >>sendmail? > > > Bind and Sendmail are traditional BSD components. The 'B' in "BIND" is > "Berkeley". Perl was never part of traditional BSD. Being present in > traditional BSD is one of the justficiations for having something in the > base system. If you don't want BSD, there are alternatives. I understand what you are saying, but "tradition" is not a very good technical argument. I suspect -current differs from BSD-lite in many fundamental ways. But I don't think anyone is advocating Linux-style granularity of packages. Most people just want a little finer granularity to handle bind, sendmail, dhcp, and maybe openssh. A large motivation for this is to simplify the process when an update is necessary due to security problems. For a large shop, it's much nicer to update 1000 ports, rather than do 1000 build/install world, mergemaster cycles. The fact that certain bikesheds come up frequently is an indication that many people are interested in it. Richard Coleman richardcoleman@mindspring.com