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Date:      Thu, 17 Sep 2020 18:25:55 +0100
From:      Jessica Clarke <jrtc27@freebsd.org>
To:        rgrimes@freebsd.org
Cc:        Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>, Alex Richardson <arichardson@freebsd.org>, src-committers <src-committers@freebsd.org>, svn-src-all <svn-src-all@freebsd.org>, svn-src-head <svn-src-head@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r365836 - head/share/mk
Message-ID:  <307760E0-1208-4F4C-AD7D-9E0A3C1B3A3B@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <C1895D1E-B3FF-4CE0-8CF1-D8151FEA0D59@freebsd.org>
References:  <202009171705.08HH5CtE014644@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <C1895D1E-B3FF-4CE0-8CF1-D8151FEA0D59@freebsd.org>

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> On 17 Sep 2020, at 18:23, Jessica Clarke <jrtc27@freebsd.org> wrote:
>=20
>> On 17 Sep 2020, at 18:05, Rodney W. Grimes =
<freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> wrote:
>>=20
>>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 9:39 AM Steffen Nurpmeso =
<steffen@sdaoden.eu> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> Alex Richardson wrote in
>>>> <202009171507.08HF7Qns080555@repo.freebsd.org>:
>>>> |Author: arichardson
>>>> |Date: Thu Sep 17 15:07:25 2020
>>>> |New Revision: 365836
>>>> |URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/365836
>>>> |
>>>> |Log:
>>>> |  Stop using lorder and ranlib when building libraries
>>>> |
>>>> |  Use of ranlib or lorder is no longer necessary with current =
linkers
>>>> |  (probably anything newer than ~1990) and ar's ability to create =
an
>>>> object
>>>> |  index and symbol table in the archive.
>>>> |  Currently the build system uses lorder+tsort to sort the .o =
files in
>>>> |  dependency order so that a single-pass linker can use them. =
However,
>>>> |  we can use the -s flag to ar to add an index to the .a file =
which makes
>>>> |  lorder unnecessary.
>>>> |  Running ar -s is equivalent to running ranlib afterwards, so we =
can
>>>> also
>>>> |  skip the ranlib invocation.
>>>>=20
>>>> That ranlib thing yes (for long indeed), but i have vague memories
>>>> that the tsort/lorder ordering was also meant to keep the things
>>>> which heavily interdepend nearby each other.  (Luckily Linux
>>>> always had at least tsort available.)
>>>> This no longer matters for all the platforms FreeBSD supports?
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> tsort has no notion of how dependent the modules are, just an order =
that
>>> allows a single pass through the .a file (otherwise you'd need to =
list the
>>> .a file multiple times on the command line absent ranlib). That's =
the
>>> original purpose of tsort. tsort, lsort, and ranlib all arrived in =
7th
>>> edition unix on a PDP-11, where size was more important than =
proximity to
>>> locations (modulo overlays, which this doesn't affect at all).
>>>=20
>>> There were some issues of long vs short jumps on earlier =
architectures that
>>> this helped (since you could only jump 16MB, for example). However, =
there
>>> were workarounds for this issue on those platforms too. And if you =
have a
>>> program that this does make a difference, then you can still use
>>> tsort/lorder. They are still in the system.
>>>=20
>>> I doubt you could measure a difference here today. I doubt, =
honestly, that
>>> anybody will notice at all.
>>=20
>> The x86 archicture has relative jmps of differning lengths, even in =
long mode
>> there is support for rel8 and rel32.
>=20
> That's irrelevant though for several reasons:
>=20
> 1. The compiler has already decided on what jump instructions to use =
based on
>   the requested code model (unless you're on RISC-V and using GNU bfd =
ld as
>   that supports linker relaxations that actually delete instruction =
bytes).
>=20
> 2. The linker is still free to reorder input sections however it =
likes, it
>   doesn't have to follow the order of the input files (and the files =
within
>   any archive).

Hm actually that's only true for archives; it needs to respect the order =
of
files on the command line for things like crti.o to work. But =
regardless, the
other points (and this one, partially) still hold.

> 3. If you care about those kinds of optimisations you should use =
link-time
>   optimisation which will likely do far more useful things than just =
optimise
>   branches, but again isn't constrained by the order of the input =
files, it
>   can lay out the code exactly how it wants.
>=20
> Not to mention that this is just a topological sort, not a clustering =
sort.
>=20
> Jess




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