From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Apr 10 09:46:18 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82DC09E9; Fri, 10 Apr 2015 09:46:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zxy.spb.ru (zxy.spb.ru [195.70.199.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3265F95A; Fri, 10 Apr 2015 09:46:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from slw by zxy.spb.ru with local (Exim 4.84 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1YgVVv-0001RM-3i; Fri, 10 Apr 2015 12:46:15 +0300 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 12:46:15 +0300 From: Slawa Olhovchenkov To: Gleb Smirnoff Subject: Re: svn commit: r281129 - head/etc Message-ID: <20150410094614.GX8220@zxy.spb.ru> References: <20150409215802.GY21982@hades.panopticon> <20150409220442.GQ8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409232711.GZ21982@hades.panopticon> <20150409234026.GH1394@zxy.spb.ru> <20150410000259.GA21982@hades.panopticon> <20150410070845.GU8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150410073230.GE99375@FreeBSD.org> <20150410092942.GF99375@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150410092942.GF99375@FreeBSD.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: slw@zxy.spb.ru X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on zxy.spb.ru); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: "src-committers@freebsd.org" , "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" , Stanislav Sedov , Dmitry Marakasov , "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" , Garrett Cooper X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 09:46:18 -0000 On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:29:42PM +0300, Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 02:06:41AM -0700, Stanislav Sedov wrote: > S> > To be fair, this is not exactly true. To my knowledge no mainstream > S> > operating systems except Linux employ UTF-8 at the moment: > S> > * Windows is still UTF-16 based > S> > * Mac OS X uses it's own version of UTF-8 (aka UTF-8-MAC) > S> > which is the cause of constant pain when moving files between > S> > OS X and FreeBSD. > S> > S> Sorry, I just realized that I might have replied to something > S> that you didn't actually say. Ignore that part of my email > S> if you didn't mean compatibility with other operating systems. > S> > S> As for the change, my concern is basically the following. The > S> only effect of this commit is that all the users with the > S> 'russian' login class will be automatically switched from KOI8 > S> to UTF8 as a part of the next update. Do we actually want > S> this to happen? > > Yes, we do. And it is long overdue. > > Today vast majority of Russian users do this change manually. > Minority stays with KOI8-R. Even Slawa mentions that he is > migrating machines. And migrating not be done at this year. And migrating give troubles for me in unpredicable time. But I dissalow if you force me to migrate. I see you need to force me. This is bad. > Yes, this has impact on people doing upgrade. But before we > have impact on people doing fresh install. Since today most > Russian users already did this change manually, we expect impact > to be small. Why you don't want add additional login class and give choise at install time for user login class? > Let me enumerate problems for those who stay with KOI8-R: > > If your terminal is in KOI8: > - Emails with umlaut in From: are mangled. You compose reply, > you put "?" char into person's name. > - Emails from Japanese and Chinese people are even worse. The > entire name is ??????. All hieroglyph for me like ?. I am don't distinguish his. > If your filesystem is in KOI8: Filesystem don't have encoding. Except zfs with utf8only=yes property. > - Email attachments you save have names mangled. Wrong > - Many Gnome based applications crash. Wrong > - You can't read file names from downloaded torrents with Russian You can read with small trick. > file names inside, neither you can create your own torrent shares > that would be compatible with others. Wrong. You can put file named in any encodings to file system. > Those who use FreeBSD as desktop, except very small minority, > switched to UTF-8.