Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:48:21 -0400 From: "Mark Dickey" <mark@bestweb.net> To: <freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: my list Message-ID: <01bdd1c9$bc4df820$296f5ed1@immortal.bestweb.net>
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PS (Pre-Script): This was originally addressed to just Greg, but I think, since it has ideas in it also, it should go to everyone. Sorry if you do not agree. Now, before you read what I say, make sure you know that I am not running the new list and only know what I have heard from the exisiting e-mails. (I also have a good idea what perspective he is coming from, though.) Also, remember this is all just my opinion, I have no actual facts, just what I think from what I have seen/thought. <information about fbsd-newbies chopped> >> If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask. > >Basically, only one: what will this list do which isn't already >covered by the FreeBSD lists? > >I appreciate your good intentions, but I think you might be going >about it the wrong way. There are lots of things for people to do to >help the FreeBSD project--in your case, I could think of answering >questions, updating documentation, maybe even helping maintain the >*official* FAQ (you'll have to discuss that with Doug White if you're >interested). Hmmm......Some of what you say is true here. The intentions are good, someone wants to help FreeBSD, which is great. However, you say they could answer questions, update docs, or work on the official FAQ. Now, that is true of someone who has been working with FreeBSD for a while and wants to help. But what happens when someone who might not know so much wants to help with that stuff. Either information will be directly given to them to add, in which case the person who assigns it to the person helping must go over the information first to make sure everything is correct. Same goes for the docs, and if it is a newbie, there isn't much chance they can help much with the questions in freebsd-questions. (Not true, but those easy questions are answered almost instantly. I think anyway, I'm not positive since I don't read many of them anymore.) Now, if you ignore the fact that a newbie might not be able to error check the information entered (for the docs or FAQ) that is absolutely true and I agree. > >I think we have too many lists already. From before the inception of >FreeBSD-newbies, I had long discussions with Sue Blake about whether >we needed -newbies. The jury's still out on that one, but I can't >think of an earthly reason to have another one, especially not one >which sounds like -newbies. I'm not sure I agree. Out of the different lists, if you look at the usefulness of them to a newbie, FreeBSD question and FreeBSD-newbie are the only two lists that are possible. (All the other lists are definetly too advanced, and I get the feeling that a newbie questions wouldn't be welcome in the specific ones, such as ISP-Hackers. Again, I don't know this, but I rarely see a newbie question in there.) If you take a look at FreeBSD-questions, it gets a real lot of e-mail, more than can reasonably be read by each person. (At least each person that has a full-time job and has things to do). That means the newbie would have to scan through the messages trying to find those that he/she might be able to find useful/unserstand. Now, although subjects often will describe a message, it doesn't help to show if it is a "newbie understandable" message. That would mean they would have to scan each message itself, which I covered already. Now, on the subject of asking a question there, yes, a newbie can do that and it is probably the orientation of the list. However, from the amount of e-mail, and the "non-understandablitity" of most of them to a newbie, it is a little daunting. Also, the purpose of the new list is not so much to ask questions, but to impart what knowledge they have gained and to talk to others just barely starting up. Now, my overall opinion is that it would be better if the newbies had a good place on the FreeBSD-lists and not go somewhere else. However, if this is not possible on the existing lists, or I should say on the existing perspective of the lists, a new list should be created. What I would say should be done is the FreeBSD-Newbies should keep the same name, but it should be for those who are just starting FreeBSD and have any random, very newbie question and/or information they want to ask/share. What I would like to see is a list where people can ask questions like "how do I delete a file" and "how do I see/change permissions". They can also inpart the information gained when installing FreeBSD on their computer, like "If you have two hard drives and windows is on the first, you need to manually install the boot manager from the disk or ftp site by doing ..." These are reasonable things for a newbie, but if a lot of stuff like this was added to the already heavy traffic in Free-BSD-questions, it would get insane for everyone, not just difficult for newbies. >From these things, a FAQ could be maintained that is organized for newbies. Such as when the answers for the different questions were posted, whoever asked originally should send it to the FAQ where it would be added. Such as the "delete a file question" At first the FAQ wouldn't be much help, but it would build up, answering the specific newbie questions, but having the information easily available in a way that newbies can use it. Using the "delete a file" The faq could contain first just "rm" and a link to the man page on FreeBSD, but then it would gain "rm -r" and "rm -f" then maybe information on creating a small script in place of rm that doesn't delete the file completetly, but saves the file for a while so it is recoverable. Things of this sort would be very useful to a newbie. (My examples arn't that great, but I hope you get the idea). This would also create a forum where just stories about things that happened to them could be shared. Ok, I think I've wasted too much of your time sending this, and too much of mine. :-) I got a little carried away. hehe Anyway, I think this covers what I think pretty well. (Just let me know if you want me to send another essay in :-) ) > >Greg >-- >See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers >finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > Later all. Mark Dickey mark@bestweb.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
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