From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 23 12:02:10 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110EA1065675 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:02:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexanderchuranov@gmail.com) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.190]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7890C8FC16 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:02:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from alexanderchuranov@gmail.com) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id h3so510384nfh.33 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:02:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=RQuvMOoznJiU3so4OwJcy1l+KSu14maSJ/6Ro1lcU4w=; b=urTEEiZ5XeWhYcv0UNXt+UyyA1QtLWkGatom6qM40kgs9tQvrraVGy+UR04tTvJ7P1 CpPifCS5yskeLH4VEN0jZI0vbQUgpkJfrSvBb1FFBHBCVJQ7l4ydZ1kSe1L/nDZXXaHD d26/ZW9Dl4BrbbIcByUU4tJtDCGB5qX85l+cI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=aU6BSu9A+INLICI99aVtX/FnEC6xsjfln2E3LKKUQnjHk+RgYETVXMdmnsMVm4JapT huIWbRJ2OxAOzjAgVk+TKoGdZMSpvPVbM2ciyZK1otNDS6ZF7dPHWjD0mj5oipcw4F7m dR8k1BkswjnPjW14i2s5NV5P7AEDYhOno8PiM= Received: by 10.210.18.18 with SMTP id 18mr3174193ebr.95.1219492927163; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.130.15 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3cb459ed0808230502o3324b5c8i465e8de85564bee7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:02:07 +0400 From: "Alexander Churanov" To: "Erik Trulsson" In-Reply-To: <20080823114116.GA40125@owl.midgard.homeip.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3cb459ed0808230256g3f0f51epd9ab54047d3bd681@mail.gmail.com> <20080823102656.GE99951@hoeg.nl> <20080823110406.GB10445@saltmine.radix.net> <3cb459ed0808230416w701714e8p7be03e544a964e7b@mail.gmail.com> <20080823114116.GA40125@owl.midgard.homeip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.5 Cc: Ed Schouten , FreeBSD Current , Thomas Dickey Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:02:13 -0000 Erik, 2008/8/23, Erik Trulsson : > > There are many applications that do not yet support UTF-8. > It would be bad if applications that just output 8-bit characters "as-is" > were broken. > If an application were to output characters from (e.g.) ISO-8859-1 and > syscons were to interpret them as UTF-8 it would not be pretty. > > I suspect it would actually break many current applications. > I agree that the proposed solution will have no effect on pure ASCII applications and would break apps that generate high bit characters of 8-bit encodings. My ideas on that are: 1) I mostly use FreeBSD in character mode with pure ASCII applications. For web browsing, writing e-mails and similar tasks I use X-based applications that have their own charset handling. 2) Adding the ability to map from an arbitrary 8-bit encoding (i.e. just keep the current features) is not hard. 3) Fixing the subset of applications that work in character mode and actually generate 8-bit characters is doable. Please note, that UTF-8 was specially designed for full interoperability with ASCII and partial with 8-bit encodings. For example, if we have an application that just performs a search for string of bytes in its input, it will work equally well if given iso-latin1 text and if given UTF-8 text. The real-life example is vi. Once I realized that kdm reads full user name as UTF-8 and that my FreeBSD is using koi8-r, I just took konsole, switched it to UTF-8, started vi and edited /etc/passwd as if it was UTF-8 (it actually was pure ASCII). And after that I am able to see correct russian names of users on my home PC in kdm window. So if someone thinks that many apps would be broken, let's name a few and I will test them using konsole and UTF-8. And again, how to check out the source, what is correct branch/tag? Should I check out from CVS or svn? To my mind, if I modify source code locally this certainly would not break applications on other FreeBSDs in the world. :-) Alexander Churanov