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Date:      Fri, 10 Apr 2015 03:02:54 -0700
From:      Stanislav Sedov <stas@freebsd.org>
To:        Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        "src-committers@freebsd.org" <src-committers@freebsd.org>, "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" <svn-src-all@freebsd.org>, Dmitry Marakasov <amdmi3@amdmi3.ru>, Slawa Olhovchenkov <slw@zxy.spb.ru>, "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" <svn-src-head@freebsd.org>, Garrett Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r281129 - head/etc
Message-ID:  <7D18BE54-E0D3-42D6-A00F-1CF7DE435DD8@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <20150410092942.GF99375@FreeBSD.org>
References:  <20150406085323.GL23643@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409215802.GY21982@hades.panopticon> <20150409220442.GQ8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150409232711.GZ21982@hades.panopticon> <20150409234026.GH1394@zxy.spb.ru> <20150410000259.GA21982@hades.panopticon> <20150410070845.GU8220@zxy.spb.ru> <20150410073230.GE99375@FreeBSD.org> <CB87FA26-8C78-4A20-BC2C-6D3A9F0031E7@FreeBSD.org> <C7B81740-9763-491E-9DBC-ECB4D368B82F@freebsd.org> <20150410092942.GF99375@FreeBSD.org>

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> On Apr 10, 2015, at 2:29 AM, Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@FreeBSD.org> =
wrote:
>=20
> Yes, we do. And it is long overdue.
>=20
> Today vast majority of Russian users do this change manually.
> Minority stays with KOI8-R. Even Slawa mentions that he is
> migrating machines.
>=20
> Yes, this has impact on people doing upgrade. But before we
> have impact on people doing fresh install. Since today most
> Russian users already did this change manually, we expect impact
> to be small.
>=20
> Let me enumerate problems for those who stay with KOI8-R:
>=20
> If your terminal is in KOI8:
> - Emails with umlaut in From: are mangled. You compose reply,
>  you put "?" char into person's name.
> - Emails from Japanese and Chinese people are even worse. The
>  entire name is ??????.
>=20
> If your filesystem is in KOI8:
> - Email attachments you save have names mangled.
> - Many Gnome based applications crash.
> - You can't read file names from downloaded torrents with Russian
>  file names inside, neither you can create your own torrent shares
>  that would be compatible with others.
>=20
> Those who use FreeBSD as desktop, except very small minority,
> switched to UTF-8.

I=E2=80=99m not arguing the benefits of UTF8/KOI8 and userbase sizes of =
both,
although I don=E2=80=99t necessarily agree with all the statements =
above.

The question here is how to introduce the change in the least
disruptive way.  And I fail to see how adding a new, russian_utf
login class is inferior to modifying the existing one, which is
for better or for worse was using koi8-r for decades.

The way I see it, if we modify the existing class:
* New and existing users created without login class are unaffected;
* New users created with the =E2=80=98russian=E2=80=99 class explicitly
  set will have UTF-8 encoding enabled;
* Existing users with the =E2=80=98russian=E2=80=99 login class switch =
from
  koi8-r to utf8.  This is a no-op for the UTF8 russian userbase,
  and a forced change for KOI8 users as they will have to either
  modify the login class, or change the login class of existing
  users
* There=E2=80=99s no KOI8 login class anymore, all KOI8 users will have
  to add a =E2=80=98custom=E2=80=99 KOI8 login class.

If we add a new, =E2=80=98russian_utf8' login class:
* New and existing users created without login class are unaffected;
* New users created with the =E2=80=98russian=E2=80=99 class explicitly
  set will have KOI-8 encoding enabled;
* New users created with the =E2=80=98russian_utf8=E2=80=99 class =
explicitly
  set will have UTF-8 encoding enabled;
* Existing russian UTF8 users are unaffected
* Existing KOI8-R users are unaffected
* Login classes for both UTF8 and KOI8-R are available

Am I missing something?=20

--
ST4096-RIPE






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