From nobody Tue Apr 11 10:26:10 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Pwhpc0D5Yz44blX for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 10:26:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yb1-xb32.google.com (mail-yb1-xb32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Pwhpb3vTJz4YFx for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 10:26:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yb1-xb32.google.com with SMTP id h198so14008905ybg.12 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 03:26:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1681208807; x=1683800807; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Ew6ZrGs/HeEI40PgtJV54VXLUfb3N1uugwxwDoiIyU8=; b=pQIfalv4xmsOpjq5VRRu/S8rKNV9lWfdDlwf6NQtw71w+gASHylT1a/QLYFA2/l3da gmqux58OegPYaCWhlHJHUxz0oWnRLsqoDavgzKGrSpvCc4s1HgcdD1TqfccgzXYmHpEH 9eoewkpgHYxALdbVvYSdwnn9hvtkyzCCzrwkybWIX7lXuUKBl8K76LtbqczI4wBe6GsS dQTxcK0JiLSIUAOIHaOo/WzKoFbFKAX0ia0uwDGRhUqbC08RMDqmrbU6A9spww4OPzCf eSzkS+h1ja2QecZgaIUCbroiQXRS/EvL8lvHeQkftRSfLljJS/xIyhoglRJ+Xmo8/IQN xJ+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1681208807; x=1683800807; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Ew6ZrGs/HeEI40PgtJV54VXLUfb3N1uugwxwDoiIyU8=; b=UnOxPkOzg1ui1sLh8C66i2JHaIO/iIvL+BOkwueA1EcU41l3C/wRoabsrpDbR3HJ/X 4P7JW0cdiMkslA4+VKbLkLKO/PmEw3QeQmu32yfwasRsKgaEM8RYuSLucm4WItaGCxRu IqD4+BsQl2M5Dkwtko+M2kACR3MOhOF2MELDgQKDolOqAxlqvJQCZ3I/WoX/6aqfIzzG ZBm/BrWI9wBi4bbgxTIvlbvxpGjKxFUQKdFyzRH3HRNPn5+I1gLD1ri9x2HvuvC3bVqf 29nl4wq9+xihvMNJyX9npiuGKb1rIAwspQW3Mj72KvD6ygOfZgMBY1CeZjuB4osfJUpo FIxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9dm2dQjSBtlEsw0cik0MOwjPyZAPIkeJO3W8f/jr8uV1/9hnD8/ e4k/9XW6ib0Lu0N/LOG4mcWb/f2As1le/qFKzAUk43Pgipjvw11l X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350a2k4supP7UKWMwySjE1hPoXymOzaz0mn4L2zdgJ7A8JS9mudch4LE9T3rDBxIr8Adoo/zojLJc/UsVYJfRM/c= X-Received: by 2002:a25:d084:0:b0:b8b:edb1:95f with SMTP id h126-20020a25d084000000b00b8bedb1095fmr5134963ybg.10.1681208806557; Tue, 11 Apr 2023 03:26:46 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <8E16D624-2655-4A10-844A-93E4F63E9859@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> <078a1cf8-7ae2-c593-615b-f5f37fa2b3eb@timpreston.net> <06be3a1e-9319-1a21-88b9-4f87328ee127@timpreston.net> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> From: Mario Marietto Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 12:26:10 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Docker To: Dave Cottlehuber Cc: freebsd-questions , Tim Preston Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b54d9405f90ced05" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Pwhpb3vTJz4YFx X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --000000000000b54d9405f90ced05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For sure there are users / developers that are in the middle,like it happens in the political area. I like this kind of person. I'm one of those people. My criticism is against those users and developers that show an exaggerated "love" and fidelity towards a system, whether by ideology, whether by habit, or by commercial reasons. I'm a frequent visitor to various freebsd forums and I often read opinions radicalized on linux technologies that should not enter the freebsd world, simply because in Freebsd there are already excellent tools that do their job well. Yes,they work well,but why not add more and different tools that which would allow the creation of bridges between different operating systems ? On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 12:17=E2=80=AFPM Dave Cottlehuber wrote: > On Tue, 11 Apr 2023, at 09:44, Mario Marietto wrote: > > Tim,you are wasting your time. It seems that all of these (good) > > FreeBSD developers don't want you to use Linux technologies if you have > > chosen FreeBSD as the main OS. That's not good and it sounds like a > > discriminatory attitude. > > I think you're mis-representing the position of a lot of people here; > please don't do that. > > The fast-moving Docker.com tech has been moving towards a standards-based > "Open Container" https://opencontainers.org/ definition, and many people > have worked across the standard, the implementation, kernel, & tooling, > now in ports on FreeBSD, to make this possible. Just a few examples: > > - https://github.com/samuelkarp/runj/ > - https://github.com/dfr/ocijail/ > - https://medium.com/@dfr/oci-containers-for-freebsd-512a6df2bc85 > > It would be great to get your feedback on one of these and see what you > tried, and where it breaks with your expectations. > > While it may be possible to run many linux containers with this tooling, > systemd and other linux-specific things could be present in any container > you pull, from systemd, to filesystem requirements, and expecting all > of these to work seamlessly is unrealistic. > > If you want the full Linux-compatible Docker experience, then, yes, > use Linux, either in a VM, or directly. I don't think there are many > FreeBSD people who use only 1 OS, we are by and large pragmatic people. > It's ok to use different tools in different situations. > > A+ > Dave > --=20 Mario. --000000000000b54d9405f90ced05 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For sure there are users / developers that are in the midd= le,like it happens in the political area. I like this kind of person. I'= ;m one of those people. My criticism is against those users and developers = that show an exaggerated "lov= e" and fidelity towards a system, whether by ideology, whether by habi= t, or by commercial reasons. I'm a frequent visitor to various freebsd forums and I often read opi= nions radicalized on linux = technologies that should not enter the freebsd world, simply because in Fre= ebsd there are already excellent tools that do their job well. Yes,they wor= k well,but why not add more and different tools that which would allow the creation of bridges between= different operating systems ?

On Tue, Apr 11, 2= 023 at 12:17=E2=80=AFPM Dave Cottlehuber <dch@skunkwerks.at> wrote:
On Tue, 11 Apr 2023, at 09:44, Mario Marietto wrote= :
> Tim,you are wasting your time. It seems that all of these (good)
> FreeBSD developers don't want you to use Linux technologies if you= have
> chosen FreeBSD as the main OS. That's not good and it sounds like = a
> discriminatory attitude.=C2=A0 =C2=A0

I think you're mis-representing the position of a lot of people here; please don't do that.

The fast-moving Docker.com tech has been moving towards a standards-based "Open Container" https://opencontainers.org/ definition, an= d many people
have worked across the standard, the implementation, kernel, & tooling,=
now in ports on FreeBSD, to make this possible. Just a few examples:

- https://github.com/samuelkarp/runj/
- https://github.com/dfr/ocijail/
- https://medium.com/@dfr/oci-contain= ers-for-freebsd-512a6df2bc85

It would be great to get your feedback on one of these and see what you
tried, and where it breaks with your expectations.

While it may be possible to run many linux containers with this tooling, systemd and other linux-specific things could be present in any container you pull, from systemd, to filesystem requirements, and expecting all
of these to work seamlessly is unrealistic.

If you want the full Linux-compatible Docker experience, then, yes,
use Linux, either in a VM, or directly. I don't think there are many FreeBSD people who use only 1 OS, we are by and large pragmatic people.
It's ok to use different tools in different situations.

A+
Dave


--
Mario.
--000000000000b54d9405f90ced05--