From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 23 12:31:38 2008 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC6B1065674 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:31:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com (fg-out-1718.google.com [72.14.220.152]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 041198FC15 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:31:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yanefbsd@gmail.com) Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id l26so855861fgb.35 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:31:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Ce9VXi/lbKvjTE8f6H2PP+KPDj80uROi9vBf8LqY2Tg=; b=gBn6VBbm7N2p8ZYKm0B1BndoOxPryjlLx4dIrTJUUkohfehB4rXTd3/T1qxw+/Kivs ZyQUFf66S6yffRh9+4pfLfrPCOvckJz6/7VTvHPGKPU7hFZHVCWgNmDobnsCOIZm+h6p hFieDkNSddgU8ypoLDrbzaiwq6u/DR9VcBq5k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=srmFL07Qzk6Tw//qjPf4/lmNzGQ3uJOORXGTROps0Zx5aoNNgYUO2nSBYa5n8XCuyX VmycPQmoPHGCODznEjqK29BfMpMpp/5Jo+yvRmbdRiTPakx6G1HSNR6VWcZIuK6YHd1B IxG3MtEhCDdM7T+KRhR+BBwf/oqTY1zNxsvUY= Received: by 10.86.98.14 with SMTP id v14mr1657027fgb.74.1219494696921; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.62.14 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <7d6fde3d0808230531q3a6d0952s6faa632e8faaa3ff@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:31:36 -0700 From: "Garrett Cooper" To: "Alexander Churanov" In-Reply-To: <3cb459ed0808230502o3324b5c8i465e8de85564bee7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <3cb459ed0808230256g3f0f51epd9ab54047d3bd681@mail.gmail.com> <20080823102656.GE99951@hoeg.nl> <20080823110406.GB10445@saltmine.radix.net> <3cb459ed0808230416w701714e8p7be03e544a964e7b@mail.gmail.com> <20080823114116.GA40125@owl.midgard.homeip.net> <3cb459ed0808230502o3324b5c8i465e8de85564bee7@mail.gmail.com> Cc: FreeBSD Current , Thomas Dickey , Ed Schouten Subject: Re: Unicode-based FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:31:38 -0000 On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 5:02 AM, Alexander Churanov wrote: > Erik, > > 2008/8/23, Erik Trulsson : >> >> There are many applications that do not yet support UTF-8. >> It would be bad if applications that just output 8-bit characters "as-is" >> were broken. >> If an application were to output characters from (e.g.) ISO-8859-1 and >> syscons were to interpret them as UTF-8 it would not be pretty. >> >> I suspect it would actually break many current applications. >> > I agree that the proposed solution will have no effect on pure ASCII > applications and would break apps that generate high bit characters of 8-bit > encodings. My ideas on that are: > > 1) I mostly use FreeBSD in character mode with pure ASCII applications. For > web browsing, writing e-mails and similar tasks I use X-based applications > that have their own charset handling. > > 2) Adding the ability to map from an arbitrary 8-bit encoding (i.e. just > keep the current features) is not hard. > > 3) Fixing the subset of applications that work in character mode and > actually generate 8-bit characters is doable. > > Please note, that UTF-8 was specially designed for full interoperability > with ASCII and partial with 8-bit encodings. For example, if we have an > application that just performs a search for string of bytes in its input, it > will work equally well if given iso-latin1 text and if given UTF-8 text. > > The real-life example is vi. Once I realized that kdm reads full user name > as UTF-8 and that my FreeBSD is using koi8-r, I just took konsole, switched > it to UTF-8, started vi and edited /etc/passwd as if it was UTF-8 (it > actually was pure ASCII). And after that I am able to see correct russian > names of users on my home PC in kdm window. > > So if someone thinks that many apps would be broken, let's name a few and I > will test them using konsole and UTF-8. > > And again, how to check out the source, what is correct branch/tag? Should I > check out from CVS or svn? To my mind, if I modify source code locally this > certainly would not break applications on other FreeBSDs in the world. :-) You want a separate project branch in perforce space (CVS/SVN is reserved for committers -- Perforce is reserved for folks contributing to FreeBSD without commit access). I'd make a good case to the perforce-admins@ for why you should have this. Cheers, -Garrett