Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 16:57:44 +0000 From: "Welcome, Traiano" <welcomet@amazon.com> To: "Julian H. Stacey" <jhs@berklix.com> Cc: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> Subject: RE: Writing a (BSD like) Operating Systems From Scratch Message-ID: <8F56C8EF8265DF489B64A19B10910AC7025DF4B3@ex10-mbx-14001.ant.amazon.com> In-Reply-To: <201305241340.r4ODcju4009740@fire.js.berklix.net> References: Your message "Fri, 24 May 2013 10:15:23 -0000." <8F56C8EF8265DF489B64A19B10910AC7025C53B2@ex10-mbx-14001.ant.amazon.com> <201305241340.r4ODcju4009740@fire.js.berklix.net>
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Hi Julian Thanks, any response is appreciated, here's mine: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- > hackers@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Julian H. Stacey > Sent: 24 May 2013 15:39 > To: Welcome, Traiano > Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: Writing a (BSD like) Operating Systems From Scratch > > "Welcome, Traiano" wrote: > > Hi All > > I've been read thousands of pages of FreeBSD and Linux Kernel source > code and books on the internals of BSD and Linux over the years in attempt > to develop a complete understanding of operating systems (or at least, UNIX > like ones). However, I feel that I'm as mystified as to the finer details as > when I first started. So I've concluded that the best way to really understand > the deep dark details of UNIX is to try and write one from scratch (using the > general guidelines of standards like POSIX etc ...), and maybe taking a peek at > BSD and Linux from time to time. My questions around this are: > > Sorry, but your questions & text (see mega line above, no folds ! Ugh) tell me > > A) You dont know enough, & would be better working with an > existing > project, be it a BSD Linux Minix Sprite Mach whatever. Maybe > also doing some formal training in OSs eg a Uni. degree > in computing or whatever. Right on the mark, Julian! The don't know enough part especially, hence the _questions_ (Normally asked by people who don't know enough). May I ask where you get the divine wisdom to know where I "would be better working with" ? don't you think that would be best left up to me? So what if formal training in OSes is not an option to me ? Not all of us have the wealth and time, nor privilege of coming from a family that can afford such an education, like myself for example. What do you recommend for those of us who have neither the wealth nor luxury of time to pursue " a Uni. degree in computing or whatever." ? You appear not to realize that to even begin working with one of the existing projects, you'd best have a solid understanding of OSes to begin with, which brings up an interesting catch -22 that goes something like: "You can't join the club, because you don't know enough. You can't know enough 'till you join our club". Is that the case or am I mistaken ? > > B) You havent realised technology is moving faster & with ever more > more people working on OSs & tools, its like looking in > from the edge of an exploding galaxy & trying to understand > all within: by the time you do, its grown ! > May I ask how you jumped to that conclusion? What makes you think I want to keep at the cutting edge of everything? All I want to begin at the very basis and build up from there at my own pace, until I'm capable of building something very Basic, functional and something I can use to illustrate to myself the design principles involved in building operating systems. > C) If people devoted tons of time over years to help you along, > it would be their & your time wasted to achieve anothernice > OS time that would be better spent if you & they worked > together on improving an existing OS - see (A) above. Where did you get the idea that I'm asking for tons of time over years ? Have you a record of me going around the internet pestering people for answers on how to build operating systems? All I asked for was a couple of links and pointers, maybe a good book or two. Besides, I'd be of no using helping to build spacecraft if I can barely build a cart, so no, my time would not be better spent helping people who really have a clue to improve existing OSes. > Sorry it's not what you want to hear but modern OS are too big for > 1 man, & evolving too fast, even those called Jollitz Tannenbaum or Linus, got > replaced/ supplemented by Teams. Choose a project team & an aspect/ > technology within the team, & that will be useful not a waste of time. I don't accept the conjecture that modern OSes are too big for one man. Modern OSes and their associated entourage of userpace and plugin modules maybe, but not the basic kernel/supervisor program. An OS is as big or small as you make it. I would like to eat this particular elephant one bite at a time. > Some OS's http://berklix.com/free/ > Thanks, nice link :-) > Cheers, > Julian > -- > Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich > http://berklix.com Reply below not above, like a play script. Indent old text > with "> ". > Send plain text. No quoted-printable, HTML, base64, multipart/alternative. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers- > unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
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