From owner-svn-src-head@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 30 18:00:47 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B870106566B; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:00:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from harmony.bsdimp.com (bsdimp.com [199.45.160.85]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F33B8FC1B; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:00:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by harmony.bsdimp.com (8.14.2/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n0UHvLQk051197; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:57:21 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:57:46 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20090130.105746.-1582160580.imp@bsdimp.com> To: obrien@FreeBSD.org From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20090130173956.GA9119@dragon.NUXI.org> References: <20090130015518.GA20404@hades.panopticon> <20090130.085130.-4349483.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090130173956.GA9119@dragon.NUXI.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 5.2 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, amdmi3@amdmi3.ru, src-committers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:00:47 -0000 In message: <20090130173956.GA9119@dragon.NUXI.org> "David O'Brien" writes: : On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:51:30AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: : > In message: <20090130015518.GA20404@hades.panopticon> : > Dmitry Marakasov writes: : > : * David E. O'Brien (obrien@FreeBSD.org) wrote: : > : I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages: : > : - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA. : > : - Do break recognizeable make output people are used to : > : - Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example, : > : generated by cmake: : .. : > : There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this : > : out, as this will really annoy many people. : > : > This makes at least two requests... I hate them too. really really : > really hate them. -Q is default in all my trees. : > : > The real problem is that it exposes way too many internal target names : > that are totally baffling, even to me who has a lot of build : > experience. Also, it isn't clear how to use them. : > : > O'Brien says they were disabled in 1994 for no good reason without : > discussion, so he's turning them back on, without discussion. The : > project is a very different place than it was then, and doing this : > sort of thing is anti-social. : : s/1994/14-Nov-1998/ : : 100,000 of things change within FreeBSD without discission that : displeases some set of folks. That's nothing new, but I'm restoring : compatibility and functionailty, not removing it. Don't you have any ability to judge that this might be a bad thing? So far the voting I solicited is 100% in favor of getting rid of what you did... Usually that implies it is a bad commit... : I found src/Makefile.inc1 r134903 / rev 1.444 very noisy, but lived with : it. I don't care that -s now implies -Q, except that it still leaves so : much "noise" like r134903 / rev 1.444 and other output. : [Why the log message is about 'Unanimous Consent' and not verbosity?] Because I messed up on the commit. I also talked to a lot of people before making the commit, socialized the issue and got buy in from ru@ before making the change. : I wonder what % build speed improvement quieting that behind 'make -s' : would give? I should measure it. I believe that it won't be that much since the output is 1/10th the size of the latest commit... Warner