From owner-freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Mon Apr 29 14:19:37 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6082A15905C6; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:19:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from theravensnest.org (theravensnest.org [46.226.110.62]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "theravensnest.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC28B84021; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:19:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [10.164.186.150] ([167.220.197.150]) (authenticated bits=0) by theravensnest.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x3TDnaeJ005846 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:49:37 GMT (envelope-from theraven@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: mail: Host [167.220.197.150] claimed to be [10.164.186.150] Subject: Re: CFT: FreeBSD Package Base To: lev@FreeBSD.org, kris@ixsystems.com, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org References: <002901d4fdfb$e52eb890$af8c29b0$@ixsystems.com> <1393169f-7988-7ce6-e030-8c61727f78b8@FreeBSD.org> From: David Chisnall Message-ID: <51429d1b-6305-7656-dfd0-cbad8b9c0c40@FreeBSD.org> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:50:21 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1393169f-7988-7ce6-e030-8c61727f78b8@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: DC28B84021 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.82 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.825,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29169, ipnet:46.226.108.0/22, country:FR]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Packaging the FreeBSD base system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:19:37 -0000 On 29/04/2019 14:19, Lev Serebryakov wrote: > I'm not very interested in packetized base for "big servers" which > contains full FreeBSd installation 'Big servers' may have a full FreeBSD installation in the base system, but they may also have hundreds of jails that want the absolute minimum required for the service that they're exporting. FreeBSD is currently suffering quite a lot from the lack of any solid story here. The vast majority of cloud deployments are now using some combination of Docker and Kubernetes or equivalents to spin up a large number of VMs and an even larger number of microservice containers within them. This should be something that FreeBSD is ideal for - jails preform better and provide a more coherent interface than the mess of cgroups and seccomp-bpf that Linux containers use. It *ought* to be trivial to create a jail that has basically nothing other than the core libraries (and maybe a shell) and is managed from the outside. Even the few FreeBSD core utilities that support jails don't really work like this (for example, I can use pkg to install something in a jail, but doing so implicitly installs a copy of the pkg tool inside the jail and invokes that). David