From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Mar 2 18:57:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0ED16A4CF for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3675243D1D for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:57:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i232v4UA081413; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:57:04 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Received: from localhost (narvi@localhost)i232v4Ze081410; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:57:04 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 04:57:04 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: "Scott I. Remick" In-Reply-To: <20040301194121.97837.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040303042324.P79809@haldjas.folklore.ee> References: <20040301194121.97837.qmail@web41108.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=8.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on haldjas.folklore.ee cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Daemon's Advocate article X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 02:57:35 -0000 On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Scott I. Remick wrote: > --- Johnson David wrote: > > I'm a desktop user. I have noticed more than once some active disdain > > towards the desktop by FreeBSD developers. Why is this? Did I miss the > > sign out front saying "servers only"? You don't have to be a > > dumb-downed system like Lindows to be suitable for the desktop. > > I have to concur. For some reason, there seems to be a common attitude that > if you use FreeBSD to any extent, you must be a C++ programmer with the > ability to write drivers and patch applications. While I fully respect the > fact that this is a volunteer effort, the above can come off as rather harsh > and deterring for a new user. We FreeBSD users often scold the Linux > community for their attitude problems... why must we replace one bad > attitude with another in our own community? > The attitude towards "FreeBSD on desktop" used to be *REALLY* bad. Up to and including core(*1) members saying that FreeBSD on desktop was pointless and servers are the only direction. Its reasonable now even if not exactly embracing. Which is a pity - peopel don't seem to draw a connection between developers choice of desktops to servers getting installed. > The people who volunteer their free time for the good of the FreeBSD > community can do a lot of things in their sleep which are beyond the > abilities of the common desktop user. Perhaps some have some free time, yes, but... I'd rather not be at a sever disadvantage because I use freebsd on desktop instead of using linux. > perhaps others find a request simple enough that they can balance their time > to handle something that would help someone else. But to make a polite > request and get back "Why don't you port it yourself if you want it?" or > "patch/driver submissions welcome" conveys an impression that FreeBSD is for > developers only... if you can't code, your input isn't desired. > > I know it's all volunteer, and I volunteer my time and efforts in the ways I > can despite not being a C++ coder. Nor have I graduated to the point where I > can port applications (although I will be willing to attempt it once I can > have an additional test PC environment where I can risk experimenting with > apps not in the ports tree). But I field a lot of new-user questions, have > gotten several people up and going who turn to me first with questions, I > run an advocacy/news/help site, and so on. We all help as we can. > > I'm sorry to see Greg leave. I own his book and found it very useful. > Definitely - I have seen him do tons of very important stuff, I hope he does stay around. (*1) This is the old-old, unlected core i'm talking about