From owner-freebsd-java Sun Dec 31 15:26:48 2000 From owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 31 15:26:44 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-java@freebsd.org Received: from topperwein.dyndns.org (acs-24-154-28-99.zoominternet.net [24.154.28.99]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA7C37B400 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from topperwein.dyndns.org (topperwein.dyndns.org [192.168.168.10]) by topperwein.dyndns.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id eBVNRiP45510 for ; Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:27:45 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from behanna@zbzoom.net) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:27:44 -0500 (EST) From: Chris BeHanna Sender: behanna@zbzoom.net Reply-To: behanna@zbzoom.net To: FreeBSD-Java Subject: Re: Port for the Orion Server (J2EE Application Server) In-Reply-To: <818090000.978283636@grolsch.ai> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-java@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, 31 Dec 2000, Jeroen C. van Gelderen wrote: > --On Sunday, December 31, 2000 11:25:34 -0500 Chris BeHanna > wrote: > > > On Sun, 31 Dec 2000, Jeroen C. van Gelderen wrote: > > > >> --On Saturday, December 30, 2000 19:50:07 -0500 Chris BeHanna > >> wrote: > >> > >> > On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Jeroen C. van Gelderen wrote: > >> > > >> >>> [...] > >> >> > >> >> Being responsible for a number of open source Java libraries I > >> >> strongly prefer that a port does a binary install. > >> > > >> > With (almost?) all ports, you have always had the option of > >> > grabbing the precompiled package and doing > >> > > >> > pkg_add > >> > > >> > instead of cd'ing to the ports area and doing > >> > > >> > make install > >> > > >> > I strongly believe that this model should be followed for Java as well > >> > as for C/C++. > >> > >> Uhm. You have not addressed any of the concerns expressed in the mail > >> you are responding to. Nor do you provide any arguments in favor of > >> your strong belief. > > > > The argument is simple: those who want jars can grab them via the > > pkg_add method. Those who want source can use the make install > > method. This is completely consistent with the existing ports model > > and requires no change in practice. > > As outlined in my mail: what you propose may be difficult (point 2b), not > possible (point 1), inappropriate (point 3) or inconvenient (point 2abc). These points can be addressed by: 1) Crafting a port that builds without handholding; and 2) Setting port dependencies appropriately. > Keep in mind that Java and C/C++ are fundamentally different. Most C > programs are shipped in source form and the user is expected to > ./configure, make, make install. The ports system naturally matches and > automates this process. > > Java programs on the other hand are mostly shipped as precompiled jars > (i.e. binary) and the end-user is not expected to use the source except for > reference purposes and/or for contributing. Nothing prevents you or anyone from shipping jars in a tarball that is installed via pkg_add. > The Jakarta webpage says: > > "We make the actual source code available for anyone to use. In general, > the source code is meant for developers who want to "hack" in order to > integrate Servlets and JSP into other products." > > and > > "In general, binaries are meant for developers who want to use the Servlet > and JavaServer Pages technologies (versus those who want to "hack" the > technologies in order to integrate them into other products)." > > This suggests that installing the binary is exactly what should be done: It *can* be done, via the existing model, by constructing a package that can be downloaded and added via pkg_add. > ports are for end-user deployment, not for development. Incidentally, this > is exactly what most (if not all) Java ports do currently: install the > binary. > > More generally: the ports system should be adapted to the applications it > is used for, not the other way around. I disagree. I doubt we will persuade each other on this point. -- Chris BeHanna Software Engineer behanna@bogus.zbzoom.net Remove "bogus" before responding. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-java" in the body of the message