From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 20 23:35:19 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C282B6AD for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 23:35:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail1.multiplay.co.uk (mail1.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.96.23]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6426A21E5 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 23:35:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r2d2 ([82.69.141.170]) by mail1.multiplay.co.uk (mail1.multiplay.co.uk [85.236.96.23]) (MDaemon PRO v10.0.4) with ESMTP id md50006781956.msg for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 23:35:15 +0000 X-Spam-Processed: mail1.multiplay.co.uk, Wed, 20 Nov 2013 23:35:15 +0000 (not processed: message from valid local sender) X-MDDKIM-Result: neutral (mail1.multiplay.co.uk) X-MDRemoteIP: 82.69.141.170 X-Return-Path: prvs=103643e192=killing@multiplay.co.uk X-Envelope-From: killing@multiplay.co.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Message-ID: From: "Steven Hartland" To: "Matthew Ahrens" , "Marcus Reid" References: <20131114173423.GA21761@blazingdot.com> Subject: Re: Defaults in 10.0 ZFS through bsdinstall Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 23:35:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Cc: freebsd-fs X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 23:35:19 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Ahrens" >> I noticed a couple of things with the ZFS defaults that result from >> using the new installer in 10.0-BETA3. >> >> One, atime is turned off everywhere by default. There was a thread on >> this list on June 8 with a subject of 'Changing the default for ZFS >> atime to off?', and from what I can tell the idea of turning off atime >> by default was not a popular one. >> >> > It would be a pity if people compared ZFS on FreeBSD vs UFS on FreeBSD > (using the installer's defaults) and came to the conclusion that "Mail > programs don't work on ZFS on FreeBSD, use UFS instead." I think it's well > known that there are performance differences between ZFS and UFS, depending > on your workload. If you choose defaults that cause there to be > correctness differences, that could be detrimental. It would also be a pitty if users came to conclusion not to use ZFS because it wears their SSD's out much quicker than UFS does or performs much worse. Having a sensible default that's correctly messaged is something to be commended not discouraged because its not the tradition and for those that don't bother reading they may have issues as that could be said for any option. Its also not something that can't be changed in seconds either, so the suggestion of /var with it enabled so default mail installs work as normal and for those that choose to install mail folders else where they need to read and learn, instead of peanalising every single user gets my vote. Regards Steve ================================================ This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmaster@multiplay.co.uk.