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Date:      Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:58:29 -0800
From:      "Chris H" <portmaster@BSDforge.com>
To:        "Adam Weinberger" <adamw@adamw.org>
Cc:        <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org>, <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>
Subject:   Re: Procmail Vulnerabilities check
Message-ID:  <ed196552850fa99bb344d1627942bca3@udns.ultimatedns.net>
In-Reply-To: <EC0F9F41-4A57-4A8F-A7B4-67D954182DDA@adamw.org>

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On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:49:02 -0700 "Adam Weinberger" <adamw@adamw=2Eorg> said

> > On 10 Dec, 2017, at 10:11, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask=2Eapl=2Ewashington=2Eed=
u> =20
> > wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 01:21:13PM +0000, Matthew Seaman wrote:
> >> Hence the current sendmail in base is neither fish nor fowl: way
> >> overpowered for almost all installations, but with significant
> >> limitations for a machine providing a full-blown mail service=2E
> >> Personally I agree with his reasoning: unless the primary function of
> >> your FreeBSD machine is to be an MTA, you really don't need any more
> >> capability than to either deliver to a local mailbox, or forward all
> >> e-mails to a smart host=2E  Certainly you don't need anything capable of
> >> receiving incoming e-mails=2E
> >
> > I disagree=2E  FreeBSd used to pride itself on being a complete operating
> > system oout-of-the-box=2E  Lately, a smaller number of developers are
> > moving FreeBSD to being a kernel with a bunch of add-on software=2E
> >
> > dma(1) does not support a =2Eforward file and by extension vacation(1)=2E
> > Without =2Eforward, then those of use who use procmail(1) (subject of
> > this email thread) in =2Eforward and by extension spamassisin are
> > hosed=2E
> >
> > Chapter 27 of the FreeBSD Handbook would need to be rewritten before
> > sendmail can be removed=2E  It is assumed that sendmail is installed
> > with base=2E
>=20
> Hi Steve,
>=20
> I agree with you about the merits of FreeBSD providing a complete system =
=20
> out-of-the-box=2E But of all the mail servers out there, sendmail is the mo=
st=20
>=20
> archaic and arcane=2E Sendmail is used primarily by people who are intimate=
ly=20
>=20
> familiar with it over a long history, and simply isn=E2=80=99t a great ch=
oice for=20
>=20
> people getting into mail servers=2E I=E2=80=99d rather see sendmail install=
able =20
> through ports, and replaced in base with a better solution=2E Sendmail is t=
oo=20
>=20
> difficult to configure correctly; we should keep it trivial to install =
=20
> (i=2Ee=2E ports) for those who prefer it, but it shouldn=E2=80=99t be our pri=
mary =20
> recommendation for users looking for a new MTA=2E
>=20
> DMA is a phenomenal program and is totally sufficient for a large =20
> percentage of our user-base=2E I wasn=E2=80=99t aware of the lack of =2Eforwa=
rd =20
> support, and I completely agree that that=E2=80=99s a very detrimental om=
ission=2E
>=20
> # Adam
OK I'm puzzled a bit=2E FreeBSD' motto has always been:
FreeBSD
The power to serve!

but many of the proposed, and recent changes/removals end up more like:
FreeBSD
I's castrated!

IOW
Why the big push to eliminate perhaps it's biggest attributes=2E FreeBSD
has always been a *server* out-of-the-box=2E This should never change=2E
You need something other than a server? You can install almost every
other OS/distro=2E Let's also not forget, that if you need a FreeBSD
/desktop/ one need only look at the fork to accomplish just that
http://www=2Edesktopbsd=2Enet/
Want to produce a FreeBSD desktop from the FreeBSD source?
https://www=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/doc/en/books/handbook/x11-wm=2Ehtml
from the handbook=2E There's also much documentation on all the other
possibilities regarding more lightweight alternatives to the
applications installed in $BASE=2E

You don't want Sendmail installed by/as default? FreeBSD *already*
provides that option in src=2Econf(5):
WITHOUT_SENDMAIL=3Dtrue
and a myriad of other possibilities -- including the addition of
things from ports(7)!
Please, let's not attempt to dilute FreeBSD' biggest strengths/
value anymore that has already been done=2E FreeBSD' strongest
attribute is it's being quite possibly, the best server installation
out-of-the-box -- certainly the closest POSIX server out-of-the-box=2E
Why remove it's best selling point/attribute?

--Chris





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