From owner-freebsd-ppc@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Jan 20 08:02:05 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06BA7C64 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:02:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from asp.reflexion.net (outbound-240.asp.reflexion.net [69.84.129.240]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8E46679 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:02:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 30922 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2015 08:01:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail-cs-01.app.dca.reflexion.local) (10.81.19.1) by 0 (rfx-qmail) with SMTP; 20 Jan 2015 08:01:57 -0000 Received: by mail-cs-01.app.dca.reflexion.local (Reflexion email security v7.40.0) with SMTP; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 03:01:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (qmail 32679 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2015 08:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO iron2.pdx.net) (69.64.224.71) by 0 (rfx-qmail) with (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted) SMTP; 20 Jan 2015 08:01:56 -0000 X-No-Relay: not in my network X-No-Relay: not in my network X-No-Relay: not in my network Received: from [192.168.1.8] (c-67-189-19-145.hsd1.or.comcast.net [67.189.19.145]) by iron2.pdx.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF17E1C4017; Tue, 20 Jan 2015 00:01:55 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) Subject: Re: PowerMac G5 quad-core, CPU A1 DIODE TEMP: 90.8 C (for example): How to handle? [Mac OS X behavior] From: Mark Millard In-Reply-To: <818E5DB8-89F3-402F-BCCB-F693C45F7427@dsl-only.net> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 00:01:55 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8C1E55BF-199C-43F0-8583-5C5ADCFB4214@dsl-only.net> References: <42CF1E40-5BD5-4B00-86E9-C62AEB9B8B93@dsl-only.net> <15A6D627-9DC7-48AF-B133-94980AFCE46A@dsl-only.net> <20150115231129.1b28c8d0@zhabar.attlocal.net> <0631235D-A505-4C37-87D7-6F46A14552AB@dsl-only.net> <20150116233145.6708cc6f@zhabar.attlocal.net> <31331F84-63CC-48B7-81B5-E70A22E88CB7@dsl-only.net> <604BAA0A-FD15-4310-88B2-DFEE9988D1EB@dsl-only.net> <20150117080916.3e321a4f@zhabar.attlocal.net> <42358897-0AC2-4B35-BE01-1D4EB2CC2F47@dsl-only.net> <4B8426E1-B0C8-430E-BA9F-EBBF2B1B935E@dsl-only.net> <592299C1-C92D-4CB3-8C4A-DB12FF7D102B@dsl-only.net> <8E81058D-DFF8-4C54-8FA2-1202CC03081D@dsl-only.net> <818E5DB8-89F3-402F-BCCB-F693C45F7427@dsl-only.net> To: Justin Hibbits X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) Cc: FreeBSD PowerPC ML X-BeenThere: freebsd-ppc@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the PowerPC List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:02:05 -0000 In addition to the below notes that I sent to Justin and Nathan I = installed the Processors system preference pane (from CHUD 4.6.2) and = did an experiment with turning off and on "Allow Nap" under Mac OS X = 10.5.8 on the problematical G5 quad-core. I'll note that the whole time = Mac OS X was keeping the RPM's near maximums so those are not much of a = parameter set for this note. With Allow Nap disabled the result for idle-conditions (well, = Temperature Monitor running and the configuration's normal background = activity going) was: the temperature gradually increased overall over = 2hr+ and then started the temperature oscillation pattern once it = reached something around around 88C (for the same core as before). No = benchmarks or other loads added. Reenabling Allow Nap lead to the temperature dropping and staying down = (compared to reaching 88C). (This matches earlier results were Allow Nap = was implicitly enabled and so idle-conditions did not get to such high = temperatures.) Earlier activity reports establish that Allow Nap is not sufficient to = keep the processors/cores cool when they are under load (with the high = RPM's always involved). =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard markmi at dsl-only.net On 2015-Jan-17, at 10:56 PM, Mark Millard = wrote: Hi. [The mail list will not get the pictures Justin and Nathan get with = this.] Mac OS X 10.5.8 has the pump and fans going nearly full tilt at idle = once the cores have been warmed up for the problematical G5 quad core: CPU A Core 1 56=C2=B0C CPU A Core 2 65=C2=B0C CPU B Core 1 44=C2=B0C CPU B Core 2 44=C2=B0C CPU A Intake 3104rpm CPU B Intake 3104rpm CPU A Exhaust 3200rpm CPU B Exhaust 3200rpm CPU A Pump 3600rpm And Mac OS X 10.5.8 does not prevent the temperature rise. Mac OS X just = does more to cool things down temporarily once critical temperatures = happen, trading performance silently by having some idle time. Having = FreeBSD be more like the above for the lower temperatures would still = overheat before "make -j 8 buildworld buildkernel" would finish. (I = think Justin's various RPM changes are great improvements to PowerPC = FreeBSD but the problematical G5 quad core is just too defective to = reasonably work around: I doubt that FreeBSD would want the silent = performance tradeoff the later plots for Mac OS X indicate.) By contrast the good G5 quad core is more like what one would expect = when booted from the exact same Firewire 800 Mac OS X 10.5.8 disk (and = warmed up): CPU A Core 1 42=C2=B0C CPU A Core 2 43=C2=B0C CPU B Core 1 46=C2=B0C CPU B Core 2 48=C2=B0C CPU A Intake 970rpm CPU B Intake 970rpm CPU A Exhaust 1000rpm CPU B Exhaust 1000rpm CPU A Pump 1250rpm [Past this point in these notes is likely of no interest from the mail = list but may be for Justin and possibly even for Nathan.] The later picture for (A) below shows the high temperatures reached for = a good G5 quad core context. I've collected Temperature Monitor data from Mac OS X for both a good G5 = quad core and for the problematical one (for running 6 variants of the = HINT benchmark at once). The information is in the form of screen shots = of its temperature graphs. I've included: A) GoodG5QuadCoreTemps6HINTs.jpg to show the stages (0) warmup, (1) 6 = variants of HINT going at once, (2) cool down after stopping those 6 = variants for the good G5 quad core. (Each HINT has some input that I = type so very beginning of the start up is not smooth: idle for a bit = after being busy for a bit.) B) BadG5QuadCoreTemps6HINTs.jpg for the same warmup to cool down = coverage but for the bad G5 quad core. But the high-temperature time = frame is not sampled fast enough to show its structure correctly. There = are lots of other differences compared to (A). For the bad G5 quad core I've also included some short-term graphs that = sampled fast enough to give some structure for the high temperature time = frame... C) BadG5QuadCoreTemps6HINTsStart.jpg showing the starting of the 6 HINTs = and just after. D) BadG5QuadCoreTemps6HINTsBeforeStop.jpg showing how the frequency and = structure of the oscillations had changed by the time I was going to = stop the 6 HINTs. This shows that some of the oscillation structure that = I reported earlier eventually goes away and that the oscillation gets = faster than what it starts out as --something I'd not reported before. E) BadG5QuadCoreTemps6HINTsCooldown.jpg showing the cool down detail = after I stopped the 6 HINTs. (Compare the beginning of this cooling with = the oscillation cooling?) =46rom all this I get that the problematical G5 quad core is definitely = defective but Mac OS X 10.5.8 goes out of its way to keep operating = anyway, trading off other things to make that happen. Other contexts = might not want those same tradeoffs. =3D=3D=3D Mark Millard markmi at dsl-only.net On 2015-Jan-17, at 09:36 PM, Justin Hibbits = wrote: I noticed on my quad running OS X spins up the fans all the way down at = 55C. Perhaps you can try that, set the initial multiplier to 300 or = more. I can add a sysctl to change the multiplier, if that would help = people. -Justin =