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[217.19.30.105]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p23sm1820849edw.94.2021.09.22.13.03.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root From: Alban Hertroys In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 22:03:40 +0200 Cc: current@freebsd.org, "arch@freebsd.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9A7E9AB0-1A59-4E8C-86EC-EFD8A3147112@gmail.com> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> To: Baptiste Daroussin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HF8Pg5Pz0z3Fhk X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > On 22 Sep 2021, at 10:36, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >=20 > Hello, >=20 > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! (=E2=80=A6) > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > interactive mode: > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like = other shells > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect = $EDITOR) > * support for history as described by POSIX. >=20 > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to = propose to > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not = MFCed) My one concern is this: what is the impact of these usability = improvements to sh on its usage in scripts? I can imagine that there is merit to having a separate shell that is = optimised for scriptability and script performance and having a = different shell for user interaction. It seems to me the former was a = primary purpose of sh? How much =E2=80=9Cweight=E2=80=9D did it gain in = becoming more user friendly and how will that impact script performance? I=E2=80=99ve been using FreeBSD with some frequency since 2.2.5 or so, = so I am used enough to getting csh as root shell to not be able to see = the problem that this change is trying to solve. Call me biased. My purpose is just to throw in a different point of view here, I=E2=80=99m= not a big sh script user myself (I think I wrote less than a dozen over = the years), this is not something for me to judge. Alban Hertroys -- There is always an exception to always.