From owner-freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Dec 23 17:12:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B35116A4CE for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:12:05 +0000 (GMT) Received: from sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91.asp.att.net [63.240.76.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF99143D41 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:12:04 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from freebsd@nbritton.org) Received: from [192.168.1.10] (12-223-129-46.client.insightbb.com[12.223.129.46]) by sccimhc91.asp.att.net (sccimhc91) with ESMTP id <20041223171202i9100rftbhe>; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:12:03 +0000 Message-ID: <41CAFC5F.2030306@nbritton.org> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:11:59 -0600 From: Nikolas Britton User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041219) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Xian References: <20041223101945.CB13C70468@smtp1.pacifier.net> <200412231128.18781.ml-freebsd-newbies@codepad.net> In-Reply-To: <200412231128.18781.ml-freebsd-newbies@codepad.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cc: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Time to shut down this list? X-BeenThere: freebsd-newbies@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Gathering place for new users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:12:05 -0000 Xian wrote: >On Thursday 23 December 2004 10:19, Charles Oppermann wrote: > > >>>>1. It's not the original charter of the mailing list. For reference: >>>> >>>> >>I've always thought this was silly. All throughout the internet "newbies" >>implies beginner. A newbie mailing list regarding an operating system is >>naturally going to have people posting technical questions. Even if the >>newbie is aware of the technical questions mailing list, they may make the >>choice to post to freebsd-newbies because of intimidation. >> >>I understand the purpose of the list is "a gathering place for people new >>to FreeBSD" to "share [their] experiences with others" and I think that's >>wonderful. >> >>To accomplish that goal then, why not simply have a "freebsd-experience" >>mailing list? >> >>Personally, I think newbies (myself included) are intimidated by the >>freebsd-questions list and feel they will be more welcomed in a newbies >>list. For that reason, I think the freebsd-newbies list should stick >>around and have it's charter changed to allow technical discussions - with >>a caveat that they be moved to another list if not newbie oriented. >> >>Regardless of what's done, something has to change simply because so many >>people make the mistake of not reading or abiding my the current charter. >>Currently newbie's are chastised at the very time they feel most intimated. >>Instead, they should be welcomed, encouraged and nurtured. >> >>I'm glad the FreeBSD organization is discussing this, because it's been >>painful for me to watch people basically get yelled at for posting. Might >>not seem like yelling to someone who subscribes to a dozen or more lists >>and has tons of experience, but I'm sure the wet-behind-the-ears newbie has >>a different impression of what is likely their first experience with the >>FreeBSD community. >> >> > >I originally signed up to -questions and -newbies, but was overwhelmed by the >volume of mail on -questions and unsubscribed after a few days. I feel much >more comfortable with -newbies, especially if I want to ask a very basic >question because I know we have all been there at some point. > > I did the very same thing when I started learning FreeBSD, with FreeBSD 4.7/4.8. >I think it is better to tell some people that they should be asking on >-questions than close -newbies as really new people may feel intimidated and >not ask the very basic questions that this list is for. > > Agreed, if I can't help them (with a reasonable and (relatively) correct answer) here then most others cannot as well, this is when I send them on there way to questions, also, because this is a low volume list I take the time to research the question first if I not "sure" about the answer, this helps them but really helps me to learn the FreeBSD system. >I remember vividly when I had just installed FreeBSD, it asked for my lo gin >so I gave it my user name. Then it asked for a password so I gave it that. >But what sort of a question was '%'? I was most worried when 'help' didn't >work. I asked this list and anyone who would listen many basic questions that >I was wouldn't dared have asked on -questions. > > Speaking of "help" I have always though this sould at least be an alise to man (or "man man", or "man %foo")... but what I really want a clone of the MSDOS 6.xx Help system of the same name, when you typed in help with no args. it would load a "hypertext" curses program that listed all the commands (like "whatis") and then you could select a command for detail info about it. anyways... in the DOS world you always type'd "help, "help foo", or "foo /?" for help so for most people new to unix and freebsd whatis and man are unknow to them.