From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Nov 30 11:05:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA29404 for freebsd-hackers-outgoing; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:05:54 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from xylan.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA29399 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:05:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com by xylan.com (8.8.7/SMI-SVR4 (xylan-mgw 2.2 [OUT])) id LAA00270; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:01:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from utah.XYLAN.COM by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id LAA09349; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:01:38 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com by utah.XYLAN.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (xylan utah [SPOOL])) id MAA00979; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:01:31 -0700 Message-ID: <3662EB8B.8FCFFECE@softweyr.com> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:01:31 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 2.2.7-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dyson@iquest.net CC: Eivind Eklund , adrian@ubergeeks.com, rssh@grad.kiev.ua, grog@lemis.com, tlambert@primenet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: System V init (was: Linux to be deployed in Mexican schools; Where was FreeBSD?) References: <199811301829.NAA03045@y.dyson.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "John S. Dyson" wrote: > > Eivind Eklund said: > > > > I'm in favour of compatible. I'm not sure if this require us to bring > > in the bad sides of the SysV system. > > > IMO, SYSV init isn't one of the "bad" things about SYSV. If anything, it > is just not finished (shipped before it was fully thought out.) I suspect > that a reasonable compromise is to implement a SYSV style init correctly, > providing SYSV compatibility, with the desired flexibility and functionality > that we would all prefer. I agree with this. The SYSV init scheme isn't perfect, but it IS better than the mostly monolithic BSD system in that it allows a software vendor to create an individual start up/shown down script for their package that can be installed by copying it into a directory. It also allows the system administrator to control when the package is started up and shutdown through the naming convention. > I truly believe that the current BSD scheme is more of a "punt" as opposed to > a superior solution. Making a choice to stay with the limited BSD init scheme > because the SYSV scheme has it's own problems doesn't solve the problems of > either scheme. The SYSV scheme probably mechanically solves the problems better, > but can be a mess. The BSD scheme is a problem because of it's monolithic and > almost non-layered structure. These technical arguments really beg the issue > of compatibility though. I wasn't part of those dicussions, so I cannot comment on why staying with the BSD system was chosen. I don't necessarily see this as a mistake that was made so much as something we should consider overcoming now. Linux and SYSV/Solaris compatibility have not been as important to FreeBSD in the past as they are now, and will become in the near future. > Ignoring technical arguments AGAIN, SYSV (and Linux) compatilbility are > desirable for packaging and porting reasons. I agree with this also, but want to observe that this doesn't necessarily require wholesale adoption of the SYSV init mechanism. It might actually be possible to do this well enough to vendor packages to install on FreeBSD without cracking init; we could potentially add code to the rc system to track the current 'runlevel' and to run the /etc/rc?.d scripts as appropriate. > As long as I am CC:'ed when people want to talk to me, I'll reply :-). I'm not certain why you were drug into this, but since you're not objecting, I'll continue to solicit (and value) your opinion. ;^) -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters +1.801.915.2061 Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message