From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Apr 10 14:49:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7692BFDB3 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:49:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48zLWt2FWMz48KZ for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:49:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-qt1-f170.google.com (mail-qt1-f170.google.com [209.85.160.170]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C7B2323E for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:49:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-qt1-f170.google.com with SMTP id y25so1581293qtv.7 for ; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 07:49:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaXX9Qrkr6iApO0Nm0qVjAcl/3vcwhP1b9snyu3xShlgMmOAatw x39StUqdZkn5PoXnn9bEwNNxXi5EM2Hzby1piEY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJx2zqAIJBVq9R5dVryJoWnK4jS8qOENAKfJqCeVFSjWplbdMTuTml28c3LUnei6eizfG0zBDcLdaJWDMNOcYo= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:65cc:: with SMTP id t12mr4643474qto.310.1586530185633; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 07:49:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200410061248.GK4213@funkthat.com> In-Reply-To: <20200410061248.GK4213@funkthat.com> From: Kyle Evans Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 09:49:32 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience To: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:49:46 -0000 On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 1:12 AM John-Mark Gurney wrote: > > Kyle Evans wrote this message on Thu, Apr 09, 2020 at 14:34 -0500: > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ed Maste wrote: > > > > > > Jim Salter has an article in Ars Technica discussing his experience > > > with FreeBSD 12.1 as a desktop: > > > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/04/not-actually-linux-distro-review-freebsd-12-1-release/ > > > > > > There are some points in there that might involve misunderstanding, > > > but there are also a number of real issues raised about the experience > > > a new (or newish) desktop FreeBSD user will have. It will be a good > > > idea for us to examine these, and offer advice or corrections if > > > appropriate, and otherwise look how we can improve the FreeBSD > > > experience for new users. > > > > Random small collection of thoughts I had after reading this: > > [...] > > > 2. re: default shell and niceties: complete agreement, IMO we should > > at least have basically usable history at a minimum > > Hmm... I wonder if this is a terminal issue or something. I do > remember /bin/sh not working w/ up/down arrow, but I just tried in > a jail, and up/down arrows work fine. Also, I normally just "set -o vi" > using /bin/sh to give me vi keys in the shell and then it just works... > > Guess more exploration is needed of a fresh install to figure it out... > My memory here is incredibly hazy, it may be that I was scarred by history not persisting at all across sessions or something like this; I quickly installed zsh and never looked back.