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[192.0.220.237]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6a1803df08f44-70ba93738d0sm72546866d6.55.2025.08.19.09.02.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 19 Aug 2025 09:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2025 12:02:20 -0400 From: Mark Johnston To: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, re@freebsd.org Subject: Re: freebsd-update and pkgbase Message-ID: References: List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.57 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.974]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[markj@freebsd.org,markjdb@gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : SPF not aligned (relaxed), DKIM not aligned (relaxed),none]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[markj@freebsd.org,markjdb@gmail.com]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org,freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::729:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4c5vVZ4pcKz3ntJ Adding freebsd-arch@ and re@ to see if anyone not on -pkgbase has opinions here. On Wed, Aug 06, 2025 at 05:17:19PM -0400, Mark Johnston wrote: > The future of freebsd-update post 15.0 isn't totally clear. There have > been proposals to remove it in 15.0. IMO we can't remove it outright, > since may be needed in order to upgrade 13.x and 14.x jails on a 15.0 > host. It is also a shame to lose a simple upgrade utility that is > well-documented and that many users are familiar with; compare > "freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3-RELEASE" with the upgrade instructions > on the pkgbase wiki page. > > pkgbase offers a lot of flexibility but I suspect many users don't need > it; they need a one-shot "upgrade my system, please" utility that will > automatically create a boot environment, configure pkg repositories as > needed for major/minor/security upgrades, fetch packages, and handle > package installation order (i.e., kernel first, followed by a reboot). > > I don't really think this functionality belongs in pkg itself. So, > seeing as freebsd-update already handles some of the above, and users > are already familiar with it, I propose extending freebsd-update to work > in a pkgbase world. Users would be free to not use it and instead use > pkg directly if they so desire, but this would provide a simple > alternative to those who don't want or need that flexibility. > > I'm going to try implementing this, if only to see if there are any > unexpected issues that come up. Feedback would be appreciated, both on > the proposal itself and on any technical hurdles you see. Aside from > the internal changes needed to make freebsd-update subcommands use pkg, > I see a few tasks and requirements: > - freebsd-update should be able to bootstrap pkgbase; in practice, I > think this means that we should import pkgbaseify and make > freebsd-update able to run it if the user so requests. > - freebsd-update should possibly live in its own pkgbase package so that > it can upgrade itself before the rest of the system. > - freebsd-update should configure a pkgbase repository using a file in > /etc/pkg, disabled by default so that regular "pkg upgrade" doesn't > try to touch the base system. I'm not sure yet how repository > configurations should be managed: should they be dynamically > generated, or should we provide some bundle of configurations (e.g., > one for every supported release), or? > - We need to figure out how to handle freebsd-update.conf options which > don't make sense in a pkgbase world.