From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Wed Oct 21 11:37:25 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93FF7A1A91A for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:37:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmmv@meroh.net) Received: from mail-qk0-f181.google.com (mail-qk0-f181.google.com [209.85.220.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 560B9E18 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:37:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jmmv@meroh.net) Received: by qkfm62 with SMTP id m62so29579754qkf.1 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:37:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=1WPO7mBdzmfqEqYnVmBEk8nn6+Os5WAXrkyobaosNJU=; b=XwwL4ffFdXWDqjwx6Vk0/A26yOIliLqeWkqBPdfbwglyEtG8HsF0oR3yKis38dxUvL kBriqOtLrEfGzMqBfTDBT0drSoG8PevOSLGS8J170JY8DHK3gx+WIRLEiDYfDSsBNnlT ekW2xLK3Tkj1e7nBEs17agO17GU/+CALeizzPYXC5befJ37MUaKsk5dQ5jrGKwRZ3POC Yetu/3nk4Bal2GM1pL/EkgsTsXokdMUvVJ7H++i4cXGwu1Sa4qaKtxWVQlbUJ1gi4fts 1j2wp5lZ/QFXvbQJMSIFbulebUWQSNkUZmdTjscgfjnwLcHXxcCFSkKXHD8hjzECI0Ea Tqbg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkHtdIE0WpXhT/eYrSGMyn8ViN3+JwYzCI5xwyxKHnlidDfSmni2koeQNxhfew8u2Ooad3p X-Received: by 10.140.93.104 with SMTP id c95mr10197758qge.101.1445427437732; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2620::1003:100d:41fb:c466:d2ac:cf2? ([2620:0:1003:100d:41fb:c466:d2ac:cf2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s48sm3099408qgs.4.2015.10.21.04.37.16 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Oct 2015 04:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Julio Merino Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.0 \(3094\)) Subject: Re: Retiring in-tree GDB From: Julio Merino In-Reply-To: <20151021000029.GB24405@lonesome.com> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 07:37:16 -0400 Cc: Ian Lepore , freebsd-arch , Bryan Drewery Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6E0B7D30-78A6-4ABF-A617-01E43B093CB2@freebsd.org> References: <2678091.es0AGJQ0Ou@ralph.baldwin.cx> <5626B15C.4080408@FreeBSD.org> <1445377905.99375.22.camel@freebsd.org> <20151021000029.GB24405@lonesome.com> To: Mark Linimon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3094) X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 11:37:25 -0000 > On Oct 20, 2015, at 20:00, Mark Linimon wrote: >=20 > I do not think we can ask "how many people need the base compiler". > Well, if asked, answered: all of them, if we want to keep being > FreeBSD. And why would that be? What makes this FreeBSD? Traditionally, a compiler has always been required because the only way = to upgrade a BSD system was by recompiling it from source, and the only = way to install extra software was by building it from ports. Things = have changed: it's now possible to have a fully-functional, up-to-date = system, with packages without ever compiling anything. Having a = compiler in the base system is not a necessity any more (for amd64, at = least). No, I'm not in favor of removing the compiler from the base system; I = think it has to stay for various other reasons. I'm just questioning = the axiom you threw above. What I'll argue is that subjecting the user to ever have to recompile = anything, for the majority of use cases, is bad. And FreeBSD does not = do this any longer: as mentioned above, it's now possible to have a = functional system without compiling anything, so the compiler could now = be optional. Also, as a long-time NetBSD user, I was a bit surprised when I came to = FreeBSD to find that the compiler tools were not optional. In NetBSD, = the compiler tools have always been part of a comp.tgz set separate from = base.tgz. Both are built from the source tree in unison, but when = installing a new machine you can easily choose not to have comp.tgz. I = have run lean servers without compilers for a long time, and it was just = fine. I guess we are off-topic now...=