From nobody Sun Nov 6 21:30:46 2022 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4N56x00nWvz4hBCC for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2022 21:31:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulbeard@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-x112b.google.com (mail-yw1-x112b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4N56wz0s3mz3Qw7 for ; Sun, 6 Nov 2022 21:30:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from paulbeard@gmail.com) Received: by mail-yw1-x112b.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-333a4a5d495so88416487b3.10 for ; Sun, 06 Nov 2022 13:30:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=UQtC4TiKUhCtSf46V3QwGkaJKPuEUH80aKSiiUQHRUE=; b=I+4XL/d6b9lpWoRAlBtmTkgAagDajY5C30wu02ZG3x3KNwkcxArPqkSR3j+fJJu00S BjqmAAfIKOcU915nQPyUkHxhI1YuvFnswf0aAa8IdFvwCsHe+6/mFnqtmmu4lrNcouBU Y6CsFyIlIkCDhlv791maUuFG/+GFf+YFipdVVZpzwNI8YKNdh/N1IbuMlGLOGT1z+dEN iN9bb/U99CTKTtsSzfbq5u/jOVoRQ3JKqtdrgeHE0x5fCZ9oZMqxP1VBRBT+Z4/UcA8R kyNB99ub6ADJ3OFdBDb6dr8r9x6shQn6x7S9fSr+WRQBc5w8o2A8qF27YmuGn1KBcB91 waVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=UQtC4TiKUhCtSf46V3QwGkaJKPuEUH80aKSiiUQHRUE=; b=itr2jf/4QzlWHIB/M9RrZ9Wmn/e+oHT6zp0F4gQbipJwzrJsapZ2VRXJnT1d596gWw OG2np4xl7yfQzFLED/J4Zm0ePlLRMLmZIEOA9wvagSs4P7Imb9xjCOPTQXZZFyGuXf7E LaSYH3/ojzo2UCndVQYVyVp51N6mGUVBpejXyhhVTvzOoa2nfpbmozucrdOviC2kE1tS Qa4EjBzVPyRiR48arVVnBliWWiNy7lS/+yBL2PaKL44omCwbQshDW1sjI0XRPZSTj1xB x2IQjXYekC1EYqi86P8TG75JbZdggmPvqJzvb0TKVzjLmtNtEJuYlrIrymixuXIVKzmm +AJA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf38tcXZh0cMY1YVGh3kFuVnTNuPH5j4q3a/Laa6yY4BjrNNfsNI fmDPqNsDZe+gZP+VLWt7R7DjbPGiRr9ySS+LsXsqmqvJ4Ks= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM6nDiQKqye2Aqh30sJ52bWTGiA9BKTeDtrWilHKF+QBcxZvTHlr/eArdFHn8bEHXywjBwAmhVRbLh0QgK8xbiA= X-Received: by 2002:a81:5253:0:b0:36f:cd8d:feca with SMTP id g80-20020a815253000000b0036fcd8dfecamr44103278ywb.192.1667770257911; Sun, 06 Nov 2022 13:30:57 -0800 (PST) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20221106143708.a72fd78c67eb4b055b138449@sohara.org> <805FA79F-8AEE-421E-A56C-BE16209B8CAD@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <805FA79F-8AEE-421E-A56C-BE16209B8CAD@gmail.com> From: paul beard Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2022 13:30:46 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Zfs Guide Cc: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ca34e605ecd40543" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4N56wz0s3mz3Qw7 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="I+4XL/d6"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of paulbeard@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::112b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=paulbeard@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.91 / 15.00]; MISSING_TO(2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.985]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.934]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::112b:from]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --000000000000ca34e605ecd40543 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As someone who screwed up their root/sole drive not long ago, this ZFS discussion is interesting. The rebuilding process might have been easier or even unnecessary, had I been able to roll back to a snapshot. So even after reading all of this, I have to ask if this is the right call for me. I use Freebsd in a VM, have two disk images already with a job to mirror them as a backup (not gmirror, I didn't know about that when i set this all up). Will zfs allow me to run the services I run now with the same ease (booting into the VM automagically) with the added security of snapshots and redundancy? I guess a peruse of the fine manual is in order=E2=80=A6? On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at 1:05 PM Joe B wrote: > Thanks for the reply, > > I found a series online (YouTube) a couple and they go into detail about > Zfs. For now I'm going to create 3 hard disk in virtualbox and practice. > Once I get that down I will then figure out what to do on a single drive > and those benefits > > Thanks > > Joe B > > > On Nov 6, 2022, at 6:37 AM, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote= : > > > > =EF=BB=BFOn Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:26:22 -0500 > > Paul Mather wrote: > > > >>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 3:43 AM, Michael Schuster < > michaelsprivate@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Let me repeat what was written recently (by David Cottlehuber, IIRC): > >>> ZFS-based boot environments work fine on a single disk and (IMO) > >>> justify using ZFS all by themselves. I wouldn't want to be without > them. > >> > >> > >> Although you don't significantly benefit from ZFS' resiliency features > in > >> a single-disk setup (though there is still "copies=3DN":), you do stil= l > >> significantly benefit from the other huge feature of using ZFS: its > > > > You're both quite right I should have said something like "to get > > the full benefits of ZFS you need at least two drives". I have somethin= g > of > > a data security focus :) > > > > -- > > Steve O'Hara-Smith > > > > --=20 Paul Beard / www.paulbeard.org/ --000000000000ca34e605ecd40543 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As someone=C2=A0who screwed up their root/sole drive not l= ong ago, this ZFS discussion is interesting. The rebuilding=C2=A0process mi= ght=C2=A0have been easier or even unnecessary, had I been able to roll back= to a snapshot. So even after reading=C2=A0all of this, I have to ask if th= is is the right call for me. I use Freebsd in a VM, have two disk images al= ready with a job to mirror them as a backup =C2=A0(not gmirror, I didn'= t know about that when i set this all up). Will zfs allow me to run the ser= vices I run now with the same ease (booting into the VM automagically) with= the added security of snapshots and redundancy? I guess a peruse of the fi= ne manual is in order=E2=80=A6?=C2=A0


On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at = 1:05 PM Joe B <jb1277976@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Thanks for the reply,

I found a series online (YouTube) a couple and they go into detail about Zf= s. For now I'm going to create 3 hard disk in=C2=A0 virtualbox and prac= tice. Once I get that down I will then figure out what to do on a single dr= ive and those benefits

Thanks

Joe B

> On Nov 6, 2022, at 6:37 AM, Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BFOn Sun, 6 Nov 2022 09:26:22 -0500
> Paul Mather <paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> wrote:
>
>>> On Nov 6, 2022, at 3:43 AM, Michael Schuster <michaelsprivate@gmail.com= >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Let me repeat what was written recently (by David Cottlehuber,= IIRC):
>>> ZFS-based boot environments work fine on a single disk and (IM= O)
>>> justify using ZFS all by themselves. I wouldn't want to be= without them.
>>
>>
>> Although you don't significantly benefit from ZFS' resilie= ncy features in
>> a single-disk setup (though there is still "copies=3DN":= ), you do still
>> significantly benefit from the other huge feature of using ZFS: it= s
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 You're both quite right I should have said something = like "to get
> the full benefits of ZFS you need at least two drives". I have so= mething of
> a data security focus :)
>
> --
> Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>
>



--
Paul Beard / www.paulbeard.org/
--000000000000ca34e605ecd40543--