Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2023 06:53:36 -0700 From: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> To: Kurt Jaeger <pi@freebsd.org> Cc: Stephane Rochoy <stephane.rochoy@stormshield.eu>, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Tooling Integration and Developer Experience Message-ID: <CANCZdfpPfzN%2B8nVEkRPAw2sC-W=QaUp851KcwRpJwg1zneFPNA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <Y9eepV%2B%2Bch6qMBta@home.opsec.eu> References: <202301300254.30U2sm0k061914@dell.no.berklix.net> <97020cad-f913-2985-2093-e4c23bf671e3@antonovs.family> <86357sxsly.fsf@cthulhu.stephaner.labo.int> <Y9eepV%2B%2Bch6qMBta@home.opsec.eu>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
--000000000000e659a605f37b8ae0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 3:40 AM Kurt Jaeger <pi@freebsd.org> wrote: > Hi, > > > > On 1/30/23 02:54, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > > > The main idea: to prevent information fragmentation and improve > > > discoverability, cross-referencing abilities, search, etc. > > > > With regards to improving discoverability, Phabricator's Owner > > tool could be a good tactical move: it allow to bind code area to > > peoples in order to automatically add them to reviews. > > If you know phabricator in more detail, is there any kind of tool > to understand the activity going on ? > > In bugs.freebsd.org, there is the dashboard: > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/page.cgi?id=dashboard.html > > I think we might need something similar to help us understand > the current state of the phabricator instance and the work > being done. > > Phab allows Dashboards, but no-one had the time to configure some > queries to provide relevant stats. > Phab is a terrible tool for discovery. For example, how do I query all the reviews I've ticked 'OK' that are still open, by non-committers? How do I flag things as 'interesting to me'? I can tick a flag, but I can't query flags. Also, I can't get an email address for submitter either. That makes it more of a pain to land the commit. Buzilla is in many ways worse (it's absolutely terrible for doing code reviews, though it's queryability is much better). In some ways it's better for changes that are ready to go, since you can upload git format-patch output, but it too has discoverability issues. Github and gitlab pull requests are better in some ways, but worse in others. The review tool isn't as good as phab, and when you have a lot of them, they are hard to organize. But it's my preferred way to land patches because it's absolutely the easiest from a developer point of view to do so: It's one command (though the commands differ between the two). The foundation is funding the CI aspect of this: Getting jobs that developers and automation can run to gate in place. Until we have that in place and integrated together, things will be harder. But there's two other issues: The FreeBSD project has had a long history of being behind, regardless of the tools we use. There's a labor shortage to process these things as well. Second, lots of people want to talk, but few want to do the work. I tried leading an effort in this area,but grew weary of the passive-aggressive comments about how I basically sucked for not having it done already (from the same people that did 0 actual work on it). Warner --000000000000e659a605f37b8ae0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">= <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 3:40 AM Kurt = Jaeger <<a href=3D"mailto:pi@freebsd.org">pi@freebsd.org</a>> wrote:<= br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e= x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br> <br> > > On 1/30/23 02:54, Julian H. Stacey wrote:<br> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The main idea: to prevent information fragmentation = and=C2=A0 =C2=A0 improve<br> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 discoverability, cross-referencing abilities, search= , etc.<br> > <br> > With regards to improving discoverability, Phabricator's Owner<br> > tool could be a good tactical move: it allow to bind code area to<br> > peoples in order to automatically add them to reviews.<br> <br> If you know phabricator in more detail, is there any kind of tool<br> to understand the activity going on ?<br> <br> In <a href=3D"http://bugs.freebsd.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"= >bugs.freebsd.org</a>, there is the dashboard:<br> <br> <a href=3D"https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/page.cgi?id=3Ddashboard.html" = rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/page= .cgi?id=3Ddashboard.html</a><br> <br> I think we might need something similar to help us understand<br> the current state of the phabricator instance and the work<br> being done.<br> <br> Phab allows Dashboards, but no-one had the time to configure some<br> queries to provide relevant stats.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Phab= is a terrible tool for discovery. For example, how do I query all the revi= ews I've ticked 'OK' that are still open, by non-committers? Ho= w do I flag things as 'interesting to me'? I can tick a flag, but I= can't query flags. Also, I can't get an email address for submitte= r either. That makes it more of a pain to land the commit.</div><div><br></= div><div>Buzilla is in many ways worse (it's absolutely terrible for do= ing code reviews, though it's queryability is much better). In some way= s it's better for changes that are ready to go, since you can upload gi= t format-patch output, but it too has discoverability issues. <br></div><di= v><br></div><div>Github and gitlab pull requests are better in some ways, b= ut worse in others. The review tool isn't as good as phab, and when you= have a lot of them, they are hard to organize. But it's my preferred w= ay to land patches because it's absolutely the easiest from a developer= point of view to do so: It's one command (though the commands differ b= etween the two).</div><div><br></div><div>The foundation is funding the CI = aspect of this: Getting jobs that developers and automation can run to gate= in place. Until we have that in place and integrated together, things will= be harder.</div><div><br></div><div>But there's two other issues: The = FreeBSD project has had a long history of being behind, regardless of the t= ools we use. There's a labor shortage to process these things as well. = Second, lots of people want to talk, but few want to do the work. I tried l= eading an effort in this area,but grew weary of the passive-aggressive comm= ents about how I basically sucked for not having it done already (from the = same people that did 0 actual work on it).<br></div><div><br></div><div>War= ner<br></div></div></div> --000000000000e659a605f37b8ae0--
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?CANCZdfpPfzN%2B8nVEkRPAw2sC-W=QaUp851KcwRpJwg1zneFPNA>