From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sun Feb 9 13:50:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D827239B98 for ; Sun, 9 Feb 2020 13:50:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48Fr5q4fCYz49pZ for ; Sun, 9 Feb 2020 13:50:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id 0myqjpQRjkqGX0mysjtzu9; Sun, 09 Feb 2020 06:50:38 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=c/jVvi1l c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=l697ptgUJYAA:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=IPjA-QJCAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=lJRbTvJ3zpmObT4y8VoA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=rd03tn_Jzo6Lv0OJAoBv:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 728D215E9; Sun, 9 Feb 2020 05:50:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 019DoadO084567; Sun, 9 Feb 2020 05:50:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id 019DoZrf084564; Sun, 9 Feb 2020 05:50:35 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <202002091350.019DoZrf084564@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, Poul-Henning Kamp , "N.J. Mann" Subject: Re: updating cron and atrun In-reply-to: <55C50689-6DA8-4D44-92BB-72C38B54AC96@cschubert.com> References: <6701.1581190231@critter.freebsd.dk> <97A66670F59C9C626B5090E3@triton.njm.me.uk> <8967.1581243035@critter.freebsd.dk> <55C50689-6DA8-4D44-92BB-72C38B54AC96@cschubert.com> Comments: In-reply-to Cy Schubert message dated "Sun, 09 Feb 2020 05:37:51 -0800." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2020 05:50:35 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfI5vBPyd88lIuRjwaXaekWyxCGbwISSmL72zx9qWrg6zGyYnE8oowJREvSKwXNaMP7/kcB1IM79r58K7JmQlSx1VvZDElCfLcyw3C5xyckGGiSZVNFh1 g2hmdOnXSLjWnJmWkRHJ5NIozTLEZjDNNbO96NOBOP/sDSSyyHVGK80t79Z5Qo3lVIiQkfYCcvCNqCJwH3o34VhUzgpJquoJGdi4FfurukbwQmOzZK23RWSI cpgS4d/j0uF5EYQWcA35DQ== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48Fr5q4fCYz49pZ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of cy.schubert@cschubert.com has no SPF policy when checking 64.59.134.13) smtp.mailfrom=cy.schubert@cschubert.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.18 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.11]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.48)[ip: (-6.59), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-3.21), asn: 6327(-2.50), country: CA(-0.09)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[13.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2020 13:50:40 -0000 In message <55C50689-6DA8-4D44-92BB-72C38B54AC96@cschubert.com>, Cy Schubert wr ites: > On February 9, 2020 2:10:35 AM PST, Poul-Henning Kamp wr > ote: > >-------- > >In message <97A66670F59C9C626B5090E3@triton.njm.me.uk>, "N.J. Mann" > >writes: > >>Hi, > >> > >>On Saturday, February 08, 2020 19:30:31 +0000 Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >>> > >>> Thanks for looking into this. > >>> > >>> Is at(1) something people actually use these days, or should it be > >>> disabled by default ? > >> > >>I do. I use it to run various homebrew scripts in response to > >external > >>events. I needed a delay (sometime minutes, sometimes hours) between > >>the event and the response and at(1) was a perfect fit. > > > >Right, it is absolutely useful to have, if you need it, and it should > >not be removed. > > > >But if, as I suspect, the vast majority of FreeBSD pointlessly add > >288 lines to /var/log/cron every day, without anybody ever using the > >at(1) > >command, maybe we should disable it to save power and disk-wear ? > > I use at at(1) and batch(1) all the time, on FreeBSD and other platforms. Mos > t people I know, professionally, don't know about these commands. They add th > e 288 lines to cron every day. They're not interested when I explain to them > a better way to do it. What's worse, at $JOB, at(1) and batch(1) have been un > installed on Linux (while they remain on the other platforms) because the sen > ior Linux person (who left our employ three weeks ago) felt people didn't und > erstand the utilities and, they could add anything to cron for a day if they > wanted. > > The idea of removing at(1) and batch(1) is not new. People generally have no > idea what they do and people are unwilling to chance using them or learning s > omething new because they're busy working. That's my experience. Looking at the wiki page, integration of atrun into cron as NetBSD has done, is obvious. Solaris, HP-UX and every other platform I've used (which is no longer produced today) have had the atrun functionality performed by cron itself. This is a no brainer. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.