From owner-freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Fri Feb 5 18:17:05 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-performance@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD88854ED03 for ; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gbe@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DXNt94VrPz3sXk; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gbe@freebsd.org) Received: from localhost (p200300d5d711ab71c412b6d6dff2b461.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [IPv6:2003:d5:d711:ab71:c412:b6d6:dff2:b461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: gbe) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 22980255BA; Fri, 5 Feb 2021 18:17:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gbe@freebsd.org) Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 19:17:04 +0100 From: Gordon Bergling To: Gunther Schadow Cc: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD on Amazon AWS EC2 long standing performance problems Message-ID: References: <98fc52d4-caf1-8d48-5cb2-94643a490d4f@gusw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bYq1GYnMzmh5VPU/" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <98fc52d4-caf1-8d48-5cb2-94643a490d4f@gusw.net> X-Url: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 12.2-STABLE amd64 X-Host-Uptime: 7:15PM up 7:01, 4 users, load averages: 0.25, 0.25, 0.19 X-BeenThere: freebsd-performance@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: Performance/tuning List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 18:17:05 -0000 --bYq1GYnMzmh5VPU/ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, for top posting. Can you verify your feelings by numbers? --Gordon On Fri, Feb 05, 2021 at 09:53:33AM -0500, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, I've been with FreeBSD since 386BSD 0.0new. Always tried to run > everything on it. I saw us lose the epic race against Linux over the > stupid BSDI lawsuit. But now I'm afraid I am witnessing the complete > fading of FreeBSD from relevance in the marketplace as the performance > of FreeBSD on AWS EC2 (and as I see in the chatter from other "cloud" > platforms) falls far behind that of Linux. Not by a few % points, but > by factors if not an order of magnitude! >=20 > The motto "the power to serve" meant that FreeBSD was the most solid > and consistently performing system for heavy multi-tasking network > and disk operation. A single thread was allowed to do better on another > OS without us feeling shame, but overall you could rely on FreeBSD > being your best choice to overall server performance. >=20 > The world has changed. We used to run servers on bare metal in a cage > in physical data center. I did that. A year or two of instability with > the FreeBSD drivers for new beefy hardware didn't scare me off. >=20 > Now the cost and flexibility calculations today changed the market > away from bare metal to those "cloud" service providers, Amazon AWS > (>38% market share), Azure (19% market share), and many others. I > still remember searching for "hosting" providers who would > offer FreeBSD (or any BSD) as an option and it was hard to find. On > Amazon AWS we have the FreeBSD image ready to launch, that is good. >=20 > But the problem is, it's disk (and network?) performance is bad (to > horrible) and it's really sad and embarrassing. Leaving FreeBSD beaten > far behind and for realistic operations, it's impossible to use, despite > being so much better organized than Linux. I have put significant > investment into a flexible scalable FreeBSD image only to find now that I > just cannot justify using FreeBSD when Linux out of the box is several > times faster. >=20 > There have been few problem reports about this over many years, and > they all end the same way: either no response, or defensive response > ("your measures are invalid"), with the person reporting the problem > eventually walking away with no solution. Disinterest. I can link to > those instances. Examples: >=20 > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-performance/2009-February/003= 677.html > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/aws-disk-i-o-performance-xbd-vs-nvd.74= 751/ > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/aws-ec2-ena-poor-network-performance-l= ow-pps.77093/#post-492744 > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/poor-php-and-python-performances.72427/ > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/freebsd-was-once-the-power-to-server-b= ut-in-an-aws-world-we-have-fallen-way-waaay-behind-and-there-seems-no-inter= est-to-fix-it.78738/page-2 >=20 > My intention is not to rant, vent, proselytize to Linux (I hate Linux) > but to see what is wrong with FreeBSD? And how it can be fixed? Why does > it seem nobody is interested in getting the dismal AWS EC2 performance > resolved? This looks to me like a vicious cycle: FreeBSD on AWS is > bad so nobody will use it for any real work, and because nobody uses it > there is no interest in making it work well. In addition there is no inte= rest > on the side of FreeBSD people to make it better. It's got to be the lack > of interest, not of anyone not having access to the AWS EC2 hardware. >=20 > What can be done? I am trying to run a company, so I cannot justify playi= ng > with this for much longer shooting in the dark. If I wasn't the boss myse= lf, > my boss would have long told me to quit this nonsense and use Linux. > If I saw interest, I could justify holding out just a little longer. But > I don't see any encouraging feedback. Is there anyone at all in the FreeB= SD > dev or FreeBSD.org as an organization interested in actually being compet= itive > in the AWS EC2 space (and other virtualization "clouds")? If so, how many? > How can this be fixed? How can I help? I cannot justify spending too much > more of my own time on it, but I could help making resources available > or paying for someone who has both a sense of great urgency to redeem > FreeBSD and the know-how to make it happen. >=20 > regards, > -Gunther >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-performance@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-performance > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-performance-unsubscribe@freebsd= =2Eorg" --=20 --bYq1GYnMzmh5VPU/ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGTBAEBCgB9FiEEYbWI0KY5X7yH/Fy4OQX2V8rP09wFAmAdi59fFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDYx QjU4OEQwQTYzOTVGQkM4N0ZDNUNCODM5MDVGNjU3Q0FDRkQzREMACgkQOQX2V8rP 09wjCwf+IGiZAmGqnXPRCOG80wunh8jvo8HNY0lZHqkR5GTDyU9Vro6EYUKz4MOC Dfs8wm0mLHsjVfgFivoSmH3xsSaA+J9MvjvHEoubOpsYkH5FcbzW4KZNtlokF1K3 mDeyXBC+a1zoyEY8ZpMjsHBYBeg9HL1CrLfOuVcLtG30KQZ7JA9zhtbAgSE8u0J6 35imG/eow2KMRxY/RJWyA558ZGQSGwcOXOS7rJUUkRZwpHj+cUSMLL6yUuYxCZhH gOcRX/3SB+tlsXKnBGWEkby6dP8OL0vYDdC5nuLIfKaSWtRYalLO7/hMxGCwCDdT JDh11D/d9PWdlSQ5B+fgTJX0Rrvmcw== =JhlO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bYq1GYnMzmh5VPU/--