From owner-freebsd-security@freebsd.org Fri Dec 8 14:07:43 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-security@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553DBE8454A for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 14:07:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16308734D1 for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 14:07:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.55.3]) by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 700E72737A; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 14:07:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id vB8E7Jw0003916 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Dec 2017 14:07:19 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: (from phk@localhost) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id vB8E7DF6003915; Fri, 8 Dec 2017 14:07:13 GMT (envelope-from phk) To: TJ Varghese cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=c3=b8rgr?= =?UTF-8?Q?av?= , freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Dewayne Geraghty , Gordon Tetlow Subject: Re: http subversion URLs should be discontinued in favor of https URLs In-reply-to: <2a8d9a0a-7a64-2dde-4e53-77ee52632846@tjvarghese.com> From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" References: <97f76231-dace-10c4-cab2-08e5e0d792b5@rawbw.com> <5A2709F6.8030106@grosbein.net> <11532fe7-024d-ba14-0daf-b97282265ec6@rawbw.com> <8788fb0d-4ee9-968a-1e33-e3bd84ffb892@heuristicsystems.com.au> <20171205220849.GH9701@gmail.com> <24153.1512513836@critter.freebsd.dk> <1C30FE91-753A-47A4-9B33-481184F853E1@tetlows.org> <867etyzlad.fsf@desk.des.no> <1291.1512658230@critter.freebsd.dk> <2a8d9a0a-7a64-2dde-4e53-77ee52632846@tjvarghese.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3913.1512742033.1@critter.freebsd.dk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 14:07:13 +0000 Message-ID: <3914.1512742033@critter.freebsd.dk> X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2017 14:07:43 -0000 -------- In message <2a8d9a0a-7a64-2dde-4e53-77ee52632846@tjvarghese.com>, TJ Vargh= ese w rites: >I'm curious as to your take on electronic banking. Good security is not "all or nothing", it is a carefully calibrated application of security measures to the problem at hand. By forcing all web-traffic onto HTTPS, the rabid IT-liberalist has put governments in a position where they either have to break HTTPS traffic open or give up on having a working criminal justice system. Anybody with a daughter knows what that dice will roll. If you've ever read Clausewitz, you will recognize this strategy as really stupid: *Never* put your enemy in a position where their only option is to defeat you. Various governments are going about this in different ways, some force a trojan root-cert on all their citzens, others pass law where you can be jailed indefinitely until you hand over your passwords, others again try force the IT-industry to "ensure legal access". Unfortunately this happens with little or no intelligent and cooperative input from the IT-community, who seem hell-bent on their "all or nothing" strategy. I personally preferred it back when HTTPS was tolerated by governments, because everybody could see that banking and e-commerce needed it, over the situation now, where HTTPS is so trojaned, that my webbank is no longer trustworthy via HTTPS. -- = Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe = Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence= .