From owner-freebsd-mobile Wed Mar 10 12:38:16 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-mobile@freebsd.org Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.153]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410DD1515E for ; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:38:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (critter.freebsd.dk [212.242.40.131]) by phk.freebsd.dk (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21621; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:37:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by critter.freebsd.dk (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA33211; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:37:45 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk) To: Victor Salaman Cc: "'Scott Mitchell'" , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , Colin Eric Johnson , Mike Smith , David Kulp , freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: compatibility list In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:16:33 -0400." <608F4F76C94DD211B93100805F29063A8D85@TEKNOS> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:37:45 +0100 Message-ID: <33209.921098265@critter.freebsd.dk> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-freebsd-mobile@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In message <608F4F76C94DD211B93100805F29063A8D85@TEKNOS>, Victor Salaman writes: >And what I said about Linux and FreeBSD, well it's true, FreeBSD is a better >product, but does the world know about this???? I see some kid hacking away >at school, he's using Linux, not FreeBSD. We need to do something about >this. If the truth hurts, so be it, I'll be damned. The truth is that I, personally, would rather have only 1% as many users as Linux, if they were the most competent users. This is not far from the current situation, and consequently I'm not hell-bent on replacing Linux (or Win) every place I see it. Most of the computers which doesn't run FreeBSD today wouldn't be improved much if anything for their users if they did. The current lot of ungrateful FreeBSD users (as opposed to the users who know that silence is golden for the people who has to listen to the alternative) have already forced me, (and others) to abandon several mailing lists and news groups where you would otherwise naturally expect us to lurk. Adding a few million linux (or Win) users would be unlikely to be an improvement in that respect. In all the hype about the cathedral and the bazaar, people tend to forget that no bazaar have ever risen higher than a few stories, and that when it catches fire it's GONE. In contrast to this most cathedrals stand tall in the landscape, and many have suffered fire, war, storm and earthquakes but they still stand. Which one you prefer is largely a matter of taste, we probably need to have both around. You'll find me at the cathedral if you need me. Sometimes I stroll through the bazaar and get inspiration, but I wouldn't want to make my living there. Now, to return and project this to the subject at hand: The reason PAO hasn't even been considered for integration is that it is (too much) a bazaar style thing. Integrating it would make a couple of significant sections of our cathedral look very ugly, not to mention do questionable things to the basic strength of the structure. >If< we do dynamic device support (And I fully expect us to, although there are compelling arguments of simplicity against it), we will try to do it "right". It may not get there as fast as in the bazaar, but it will last longer. Summary: No it didn't hurt. But I spent close to one hour explaining this to you, and somehow I doubt that more of my time will not be wast^H^H^H^Hspent this way, rather than coding. Conclusion: I welcome your survey and your enthusiasm, now, find a place to work and get going, I'll be amongst the first happy users of such code, but I do unfortunately not have the time to do it myself. -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member phk@FreeBSD.ORG "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-mobile" in the body of the message