From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Nov 12 19:06:56 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421EC1065672 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:06:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mx02.qsc.de (mx02.qsc.de [213.148.130.14]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C37738FC0A for ; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:06:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from r55.edvax.de (port-92-195-8-222.dynamic.qsc.de [92.195.8.222]) by mx02.qsc.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3AA21D990; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:06:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from r55.edvax.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by r55.edvax.de (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id oACJ6r7k001781; Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:06:54 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 20:06:53 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Rob Farmer Message-Id: <20101112200653.9929e115.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <201011100009.oAA09mfG024502@mail.r-bonomi.com> <20101112011934.GC35128@guilt.hydra> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.4.7 (GTK+ 2.12.1; i386-portbld-freebsd7.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Tips for installing windows and freeBSD both.. anyone?? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Polytropon List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 19:06:56 -0000 On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 21:21:51 -0800, Rob Farmer wrote: > I'm not saying the CLI is universally bad - if you gain competence > with a set of programs that you use frequently, it can be very > efficient. It does make it hard to enter a new area, though - you've > got to learn some before you can do anything. When entering WHICH field new to you this is different? Repeat after me: Computers. Are. Not. Easy. :-) > That can pay off, if you > keep using that program, but if it is a one-off or occasional thing > (like the svn tagging example earlier in this thread), it's probably > not worthwhile. That's not fully true, as you may have learned something new and usable aside, which you may use in a different setting where you can remember it. I may give a very individual example: I've been reading about the shell's ability to use built-in field splitting (see the section "Parameter Expansion" in "man sh"); I didn't need that when I was reading that text, but KNOWING that this was possible (and remembering where I read it) recently helped me. Those "side-effects of learning" are sometimes MORE IMPORTANT than the lesson learned in the end (allthough my example may not have been a good illustration for that, but I think you got the idea). What you learn by learning? An important question. You learn to think, to read, to conclude; to combine, to separate, to filter, to judge; to abstract, to specify; to express. > While you argue that it increases flexibility, which > is true in some ways, it also decreases flexibility by limiting me to > the programs I know or am willing to read documentation for. Understandable. You have to decide what to spend time on - BEFORE spending that time, as when you're done, it's too late. :-) The "side-effects" of learning processes may help you to evaluate the neccessarity or the benefits of using X over Y, reading Z instead of nothing, or doing "trial & error". The more you learn, the more you know, your considerations may change. > I never > read documentation for GUI programs This is because there is no documentation for them. :-) > - I jump right in and look through > the menus to find what I need or realize the program isn't adequate > and move on. One of my professors once said: "Trial & error is NOT a programming concept!" :-) The more complex the task gets, the more "costly" it can be to do that kind of "trial & error" (chasing throgh menues, dialog boxes, windows, icons and items). It can even be that you need more time to find out that the result you got from a GUI program that you ASSUMED to do the job properly is pure garbage - and you invested hours on clicking into that program, just to have a big file of crap in the end. Well-documented (!) CLI programs tend to state much better what a program is capable of. The ability of EXCHANGE of programs for testing is also a strength of the CLI that does not have something corresponding in GUI land. If you want to see if GUI programs G1, G2 and G3 do the job you want, you need to perform the job THREE TIMES - once per program. For CLI programs C1, C2 and C3, you just go for PROG in C1 C2 C3; do $PROG < infile > outfile.$PROG.txt; done and have the COMPUTER do that - NOT ***YOU***. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...